Public Safety Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number four of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted last week by the committee, the committee is meeting for its study on the growing problem of car thefts in Canada.

We theoretically have an hour, but we'll have to stop somewhere between 1 p.m. and 1:10 p.m., depending on the time and context.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, but all members are attending in person today.

I would like to welcome the witnesses, who are taking their seats.

First, from the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, we have Craig Oldham, director general, program development and intergovernmental affairs, crime prevention branch.

From the Canada Border Services Agency, we have Aaron McCrorie, vice-president, intelligence and enforcement. He appeared a few days ago.

Finally, from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, we have Liam Price, director general, international special services.

To begin, each witness will have the floor for a maximum of five minutes. We'll then move on to members' interventions, in accordance with the usual rules on speaking order and time.

Mr. Oldham, you have the floor.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, may I address something, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Of course.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't want to take too much time. I hope we can dispense of this within about two minutes.

We had a motion on the floor over a week ago about the minister coming to committee. My understanding was that the Liberals were going to have dates for the minister. In good faith, we didn't pull any stunts or anything like that to resurrect that motion. I was advised by my counterpart—and I don't put any blame on him—that there is no date for the minister because we have not invited the minister, as is required by a motion.

It appears that we need a motion to get the minister here, so I will be moving my motion. The minister has obviously not had the greatest of weeks. We're dealing with crime. We're dealing with a confiscation on which there's a secret recording. We don't know what's what.

This is an area in which Canadians need answers. We need answers, as parliamentarians, on behalf of our people.

I don't want to take up too much time. I think this should be very quick. I will be moving my motion again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Is this a motion for which you have sent a notice in the last two days?

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I am moving the same motion that is already on the books.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You're asking to return to the debate on the motion that we had.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I'm not asking to return to debate. I'm moving the motion again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

You cannot move that motion. It's already there. You would like to turn back to the debate on that motion. That requires an immediate vote on whether we leave the witness presentations that we have scheduled today and instead to have a debate on that motion.

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

I don't want a debate. I think we just have to deal with this. It should take no more than two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I will ask the committee members whether they want to do that.

This is a dilatory motion that leads to moving, perhaps briefly, to that debate. I'm asking which committee members agree to turn to the debate that we had adjourned the last time around. It must have been Friday.

Madame DeBellefeuille, are you in favour?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Yes, I am.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Okay.

Who is in favour of going back to that motion?

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

What was the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

I'll say it in French this time.

Mr. Caputo's motion, which is a dilatory motion, invites us to resume the debate, which we weren't able to finish, on last Friday's motion.

Are all members in agreement?

It is unanimous. We can now perhaps briefly debate that motion.

Go ahead, Mr. Ramsay.

[Jacques Ramsay, Liberal, La Prairie—Atateken, QC]

The minister is willing to come. He was invited to appear as part of the study suggested by Mrs. DeBellefeuille, who proposed that Secretary of State Ruby Sahota and the minister each come for one hour.

However, there was another motion that the clerk didn't send, because we hadn't adopted it, so the minister was simply unable to provide a response. The motion was to have the minister appear for two hours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Madam Clerk, can you find the motion that was proposed last week and that we had started discussing? We didn't have time to finish the discussion.

The clerk will find it, and then we can check the results. Is it your understanding that this is the same motion?

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

Yes. I believe there was a friendly amendment to change it from four hours to two hours. That was my recollection.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Madam Clerk, can you confirm that?

In the meantime, Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

That's more or less what I wanted to say. We had gotten very far in the debate, and we had made a compromise. I myself had proposed amending the motion to go from two meetings to just one. We were almost done, but we ran out of time to pass it.

If our Liberal friends have no objections, I think it would be wise for us to be able to quickly adopt the motion and then hear what our witnesses have to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

Okay.

I'm going to suspend the meeting for a few moments to give the clerk time to find this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

We have gathered enough evidence to validate that we have a motion for two hours for the minister. We can read that motion again if that is useful.

The committee would like to invite the Minister of Public Safety for an appearance of two hours at this committee. Is that the everyone's understanding?

[Frank Caputo, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Nicola, BC]

That's the gist of it.

I think we had a date on it as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jean-Yves Duclos]

As we all know, experienced members in particular, the committee can always suggest a date. That does not force a minister or any other MP to come at a particular time on a particular date. It is obviously for the clerk, their team, the minister's office and the department involved to find a possible date for that to happen.

Who is in favour of that motion?

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Then we will now move back to the business of the day.

Thank you, Mr. Caputo.

Our business, as I said earlier, is for Mr. Oldham to speak first for about five minutes.

[Craig Oldham, Director General, Program Development and Intergovernmental Affairs, Crime Prevention Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you very much.

I'm Craig Oldham. I'm one of the directors general in the crime prevention branch of Public Safety. I am largely responsible overall for the national action plan to combat auto theft.

As highlighted in the RCMP's Criminal Intelligence Service Canada report from December 2023, the issue of vehicle theft in Canada had been steadily increasing in the years prior to 2024. From 2021 to 2023, Ontario and Quebec saw larger than normal surges in auto theft. Ontario witnessed a 78% increase in violent carjacking, while vehicle theft rates in Quebec rose by 50%. The involvement of organized crime groups in the vehicle theft market also augmented significantly during the same time.

These circumstances warranted a swift and thorough response, and this is exactly what we have been collectively delivering across impacted jurisdictions since then.

With the February 2024 national summit on auto theft and the follow-on launching of the national action plan on combatting auto theft, the federal government has worked steadily with an array of partners to advance a number of initiatives to prevent auto theft, recover stolen vehicles, stop their export and combat the organized crime networks behind the crime.

As you may be aware, the national action plan on combatting auto theft has so far been updated on two occasions: first on October 16, 2024, followed by a second update on March 8, 2025.

Through collaborative efforts with provincial, territorial, municipal and industrial partners, and as highlighted in the March 8, 2025, update, we continue to see positive results from these dedicated actions.

In the first half of 2025, national auto theft trends have decreased by 19.1%, compared to the same period in 2024. This is from the Équité Association's “First Half of 2025: Auto Theft Trend Report”.

The Canada Border Services Agency intercepted 2,277 stolen vehicles at its marine and intermodal ports in 2024, with significant interceptions in Quebec and Ontario. In addition, 1,155 vehicles have been detained thus far in 2025.

Finally, since integrating data from the Canadian Police Information Centre with Interpol's stolen vehicle database, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have received 4,312 notifications and 889 international collaboration requests via Interpol's stolen motor vehicle database.

As we know too well, organized crime groups and networks are quick to adapt, and that is why Public Safety Canada, or PS; RCMP; CBSA and other involved federal departments continue to work actively with our partners to ensure a comprehensive and agile response to this evolving criminal trend.

This includes gathering provincial and territorial partners in early October to assess the overall progress and to agree on an approach to further engagement with industry partners beyond the existing national auto theft plan-related activities. This also includes continued work with Interpol so that they can further continue to contribute in tackling transnational organized crime.

I would like to point out that as part of that success story, Interpol, in collaboration with 12 West African countries, conducted a successful operation in March of this year, during which most of the vehicles intercepted originated from Canada.

Unless there are immediate questions, Mr. Chair, I will pass the floor to my colleagues from the RCMP and the Canada Border Services Agency in reverse order.