Evidence of meeting #107 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was terms.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Co-Chair, Indigenous Leadership Circle in Research
Can you read me the number again?
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
We'll have to off-line on that one, I think, because it'll take me probably five minutes to get all this information for you.
Co-Chair, Indigenous Leadership Circle in Research
I'm happy to provide that data, the most recent data from the tri-agencies themselves.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
No, it wasn't a criticism. It was a question on how it was going. I was just going to ask how it was going.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
We can follow up on that later.
Dr. Nemer, thank you for your work. I appreciate your qualifications, and I give you credit for taking on this job, because I'm sure some days it seems like a thankless job. There's probably a lot more criticism than thanks. You've taken it on, and thanks for doing it.
Your study that you came out with, just in the last month or so, talked about emergency preparedness. In there, it talked about communications and information—I think it was recommendation number seven, if I can go back to my notes—and transparency, etc.
Is that saying we're going to look forward, or is that looking back and saying that, with COVID, we looked at it, and maybe there were some issues about transparency and openness and forthrightness? Is that what you're trying to get at on that one?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
I think it's the former. It's saying that moving forward, this is what we need to do. As I mentioned at the beginning of the report, it was informed by the lived experience in terms of science advice during COVID. It was also informed by best practices and by two tabletop exercises that we carried out.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Again, I don't want to relitigate COVID because I know that's in the past. If you're doing this study on this, people in my community ask, “How come a nurse one day was a hero, working in the emergency room on the front line, and then the next day, they're faced with the fact that if they didn't want to get a COVID shot, they were going to be suspended?”
Did you examine any of that in terms of the actual people who potentially provided the frontline service and were included or excluded maybe, when not all of the science was there to support their employment decisions?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
No, we did not do that study.
I think COVID was a great learning experience in terms of science literacy in this country. That empowers people to make decisions for themselves—being able to tell misinformation and disinformation from information.
I have great respect for all of the health care workers who saved lives during the pandemic.
Liberal
Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thanks very much, Chair.
It's a privilege for us on the committee to hear from two brilliant witnesses today. We very much appreciate your respective expertise and presence here with us.
Let me start with Dr. Parent.
Who, in your opinion, are the key players in this space, whether individuals or organizations? Whom should we be consulting in regard to the capstone? It would be helpful for us to have that.
Co-Chair, Indigenous Leadership Circle in Research
That's a wonderful question.
I think all first nations, Métis and Inuit political advisory bodies would be a good start, as well as the existing indigenous oversight bodies within the tri-agencies themselves.
Another important caveat is with respect to indigenous-controlled institutions, indigenous-controlled post-secondary institutions and indigenous knowledge-holders themselves—the elders who hold this knowledge. Anybody who feels they should have a voice should be included.
If you want to do an analysis, it might be helpful to look at the existing SIRC plan and go to the appendices to see who is consulted. I can also say that the indigenous leadership circle in research has supported a recent policy on citizenship and membership. There was a very robust consultation done on that. If you look in the back of that report, there are some indicators on who could be consulted.
November 5th, 2024 / 5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS
That's fabulous. Thank you very much.
Dr. Nemer, welcome back to us.
In your testimony this morning and, I think, in a statement to my colleague on the other side, you talked about the impact of science on emergency management—how that exemplifies the vital need for research coordination during peacetime as well as in national emergencies.
Are you able to expand a bit on that and tell us why it's so vital?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
That's very important. Nowadays, everybody thinks pandemics are a possibility down the line—hopefully, not during our lifetime. However, right now, as we speak, we have a number of health threats.
I can give you very specific examples.
One of them is mpox. There's a new strain in Africa, and the international community has mobilized.
Here in North America, including in the U.S. and Canada, we have the threat of bird flu, or H5N1. It has now made its way from birds to mammals. In the United States, it's in many herds of cattle and porcine...and in humans. I'll give you an example of what my office has done recently: We are bringing in the various departments that have to deal with this—Agriculture, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Health Canada, the Public Health Agency, Environment Canada and Parks Canada. These are all places where there is H5N1. We want the granting councils to have a road map for identifying gaps and needs. We are trying to get a coordinated approach to this.
Those are very concrete examples.
Liberal
Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS
I think you just answered my next question.
Why is it important for us to maintain or even enhance the linkages between health research and Health Canada under the capstone? How do we do this?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
That's another example.
I think there are many ways. As I suggested, knowledge mobilization needs to not just be an afterthought in our programs. It needs to be embedded in there. There need to be pathways and processes by which research is provided back to governments and communities. It's extremely important.
Liberal
Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS
Why would it be valuable to make consultations ongoing in the community as we proceed through the implementation of capstone?
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
I would say that having ongoing research and science dialogue in the country is good. I think it's very important to maintain relevance and to explain everywhere what research is about.
When I speak about research and science, by the way, I include indigenous knowledge, and I have great respect for indigenous research. I think we need to encourage it.
Liberal
Lena Metlege Diab Liberal Halifax West, NS
Thank you very much.
I know it's an ongoing learning process. I know that we on this committee have learned quite a bit over the last three years.
Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
Thank you.
Now we'll turn to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes, please.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr. Nemer, in your opening remarks, you painted a clear picture of the good news announced in the last budget. There has been an increase in research funding over the past two years. We knew that the research budget had stagnated.
If the funds from the last budget aren't readily available before the new umbrella organization is set up, what impact could that have on ongoing research projects? I'm thinking in particular of Canada's competitiveness in crucial areas such as health research and artificial intelligence. I could name a number of others.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
Chief Science Advisor of Canada, Office of the Chief Science Advisor of Canada
I would like to see the promised funds flow as quickly as possible.
That said, if we want to do new things, funds have to be available; otherwise they will be committed quickly, and we'll lack resources. I hope that the process will be quick and that the promised funding will see the light of day for researchers.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I have a fairly broad question for you. As chief scientist, what are your expectations of the government? We're heading towards a fairly major restructuring. An umbrella funding organization requires a lot of planning. As you put it so aptly, we're ready.
What can we expect in the short and medium term?