Evidence of meeting #111 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was political.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
I'm sorry.
We'll now turn to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Dummitt, like a number of your fellow professors, you recommend in your brief to the committee that funding agencies do away with DEI criteria. You also say that applying the criteria can impact social cohesion within universities and institutions.
Can you elaborate on that?
Professor, Canadian Studies, Trent University, As an Individual
I think that, if it doesn't contain viewpoint diversity, DEI is a serious problem. I think it represents problems of social cohesion at the university for those people who want to represent divergent voices. They want to have different opinions.
With regard to someone who wants to do research on, for example, the possible negative impacts of DEI or whether it works, asking that from a perspective that is just genuinely open-minded and doesn't contain certain assumptions, life is difficult for such a person. I think it makes it very difficult at the university for those kinds of projects to get funded and for people to do research.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
You also say in your brief that DEI policies don't have an ultimate goal and that they lack clarity. I would like to hear more about that.
In addition, you say that DEI criteria do not have a clear definable long-term objective.
Professor, Canadian Studies, Trent University, As an Individual
Yes, I think that's definitely the case. Also, I think that if we're going to have DEI criteria, we ought to be really flexible with what they are and who's equity-deserving at any one point in time. We shouldn't be operating on past assumptions.
I teach at Trent University, which is sort of.... Some people say that it's in the north, but I don't think it's in the north. A lot of the most disadvantaged students in my classrooms are white rural kids from backgrounds where people don't have a university education. Those are people who wouldn't be considered equity-deserving by a whole bunch of categories, but they don't fit in at the university. I think we need to be very flexible about what we mean in terms of who deserves special attention and who deserves assistance in higher education.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Are there any other essential points you would like to make in connection with your work on DEI criteria?
Professor, Canadian Studies, Trent University, As an Individual
With regard to viewpoint diversity in general, I would just call on people from different perspectives. I think this really matters. I think Eric Kaufmann mentioned public trust in higher education. I'm not an anti-university kind of person. I love my job. I love the world in which I live. However, I would warn people that the lack of viewpoint diversity does threaten public trust, and I would hate to see Canada go down the route that the U.S. has followed.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
That's going to be all. We're soon going to be out of resources.
For the last two and a half minutes, the floor is yours, Mr. Cannings.
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you.
I'm going to continue on with Dr. Dummitt about this idea of viewpoint diversity. I'm a biologist and an ecologist, and Dr. Kerr was talking about evolution, selection and all that.
As you've been talking, I've just been thinking about the idea of self-selection. When we're young and looking toward what we want to be in life, we make these choices about what interests us.
I guess I have one little anecdote about viewpoint diversity. In my previous life, I sat on a couple of very high-level boards where they needed a biologist, and everybody else was a billionaire or a CEO of a very large company. That was an environment where I kept my politics to my chest because I was clearly not in the majority. There was some very inflammatory language around that table about the NDP, for instance. I wasn't a member of the NDP at the time, but I supported it, and I kept that silent.
However, in my university world, when I was at UBC, the students who came and took my courses chose to study ecology, the environment or whatever. I can see that if you were going into social work, as well. Would you go into social work if...? Even if you had certain views to start, once you worked in that field with underprivileged and lower-income people and saw their struggles, I think you would be selecting for people who would have those political views. I'm just wondering if you could comment on that.
Professor, Canadian Studies, Trent University, As an Individual
I'll try to be quick. I welcome your question. What I like about your question is that you're asking whether there is something aside from discrimination involved here.
Professor, Canadian Studies, Trent University, As an Individual
What I wish is that other policies on EDI asked the same question, because I think it's a fair assessment. I think, to a certain extent, there is a self-selection going on here. As to whether it represents the full problem, I don't know.
Professor, Canadian Studies, Trent University, As an Individual
I think those same kinds of assessments for people who maybe think slightly differently than I do.... They aren't being asked other questions of diversity in higher education. They need to be asked by people who are also critical of the kinds of assumptions that are operating.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
That's our time, right on the button. Thank you so much.
Thank you to the witnesses, Dr. Christopher Dummitt, Dr. Daniel O'Donnell and Professor Bruce Pardy, for their testimony and participation in the committee study.
The meeting is adjourned.