Science and Research Committee on June 2nd, 2022

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thanks, Madame Chair.

Mr. Gorman, Mr. Atkinson and Mr. O'Sullivan, thank you for joining us today. It is a pleasure to see witnesses in person.

Mr. O'Sullivan, you piqued my interest in nuclear waste and using that waste as a raw material. Is that technology mature now? What are the residues of the technology? Can you tell us more about it?

[Rory O'Sullivan]

Yes, of course. Thank you for your question.

It is a technology that we are developing. It is new. It is innovation that we're developing here in Canada. A lot of the work we're doing to validate it is going on, as I said, in the Canadian Nuclear Laboratories, to verify the science and ensure it can happen safely.

The main product left behind, the biggest volume.... Instead of a CANDU bundle about this size, which is currently high-level waste, the main residual waste is the uranium, and it's no longer high-level waste.

In the CANDU bundle this size, there's a very small amount of high-level waste inside of it, which makes the whole thing radioactive for a long time. We can take out that small bit of long-lived waste and use it as fuel, and the 99% that's left is essentially almost natural uranium, which can be disposed of much more safely and easily. We'll still need the deep geological repository that Canada is looking at building at the moment, but hopefully we can make the job easier by making it smaller and simpler.

Lastly, as we develop the process, we're working with the Canadian nuclear regulator to make sure that this is all done to the highest standards. There's also an international regulator, the International Atomic Energy Agency, which we're working with and which monitors the safety of this process.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

All right. Thanks.

Can you give me a short answer for the next question, please? That was great, but I have a couple more questions.

How could science and research help you find a short-term solution for disposing of that waste?

[Rory O'Sullivan]

The fundamental science was based on experiments done across the U.S. laboratories over the last 20 to 30 years. We have taken that existing knowledge, amended it specifically for CANDU spent fuel, and made our own changes. We have our own patents filed to improve the process.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Mr. Atkinson, you talked about the old generation of technologies. I am familiar with cogeneration. You talked about research and waste reduction. You talked about the decision to be made between nuclear waste and climate change. Of course, we want the better of the two options.

Do you have a plan in your research over the short and medium terms to achieve net-zero emissions, so that we don't have to decide between nuclear waste and climate change?

[Dr. Kirk Atkinson]

If you're talking about a comparison of energy sources and nuclear, we know that in the long term, to dispose of nuclear fuel, unless we use a technology such as Moltex, we will need a repository to store this. We can't get around that part.

Right now, we obviously use storage, surface side, in casks that are very robust and very safe, and that will last for a very long time.

My point about waste more generally was that when we consider other forms of energy, we're not considering the risks of what large-scale solar and the production of minerals for a lot of the other different technologies are doing to the world. We worry so much about the radiation side that we forget about the toxicity.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I have a question for Mr. Gorman.

You have an opportunity to do business with all the nuclear companies across the country, so I think you are in the best position to answer my question.

What is the relationship—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

I'm sorry, Mr. Lauzon, but your time is up.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Is that it?

I'll ask my question and he can send me the answer.

What is the relationship between the nuclear industry and this country's hydroelectric companies? What about science-based relationships? What is those companies' response to the nuclear sector and the possibility of purchasing that energy to transmit it into the networks?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon. We have come to the end.

I'd like to thank all three of our witnesses. Thank you for your time and expertise. We appreciate your coming to this inaugural committee. We're most grateful, and we hope you've had a good experience. We look forward to another conversation.

I see Mr. Cannings and Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas have questions.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Yes. I had an important question for Mr. O'Sullivan. I'm wondering if I could submit it, so that he could answer by—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Yes. That would be fine, but we really have to get to our second panel.

Could you make it short, Mr. Cannings?

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I want a response to the letter by 10 or so of the top American scientists and nuclear experts, who wrote to the Prime Minister and asked for a high-level study on Moltex's process, because they were extremely concerned about the proliferation of plutonium and the environmental indications.

These are not the extreme environmentalists we heard about—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Okay. Thank you.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

These are top American diplomats and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Cannings. I think the question has been understood.

With that, I'm going to briefly suspend. We have a second panel.

I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Madam Chair, I lost a bit of time earlier because Mr. O'Sullivan's headset had to be adjusted. Would it be possible to make up for the lost time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, as you know, I do my utmost to be fair, and I think you all know I am fair. I can't help that there were technical difficulties.

I'm sorry. We really have to go on to the second panel. I hope that you will respect why.

Thank you.

We will briefly suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Dear colleagues, I'm going to call us back to order. We have two more panels to get through.

I'd like to welcome all our witnesses on this second panel. Thank you for joining us tonight. This is an inaugural committee on science and research, and this is the first study on small nuclear reactors.

First we have, from Bruce Power, Michael Rencheck, president and chief executive officer. From New Brunswick Power Corporation, we have Brett Plummer, chief nuclear officer and vice-president nuclear. From Ontario Power Generation Inc., we have Ken Hartwick, president and chief executive officer.

Welcome, everyone.

You will each have five minutes to speak. After four and a half minutes, I will hold up this card. It tells you that you have 30 seconds left.

We have to have interpretation, so if we have technical difficulties and the interpreters can't hear you, we're not going to be able to continue with the witness. For that, I'm very sorry.

We will begin with Mr. Rencheck from Bruce Power for five minutes, please.

[Michael Rencheck, President and Chief Executive Officer, Bruce Power]

Members of the committee, good evening. My name is Mike Rencheck, president and CEO of Bruce Power. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you as part of your study on small modular reactors.

First, I would like to acknowledge today that I am speaking from the traditional lands and treaty territory of the Saugeen Ojibway Nation, the traditional harvesting territories of the Georgian Bay Métis Council of Ontario, and the Historic Saugeen Métis.

Bruce Power provides 30% of Ontario's electricity safely, reliably, and at low cost while producing zero-carbon emissions. Bruce Power is proud to be able to support the fight against climate change while powering our economy with a made-in-Canada solution and a revitalized, thriving domestic supply chain.

While the world is trying to figure out ways to phase out coal-fired electricity generation, Ontario has already shown how it can be done, with Bruce Power providing 70% of the power needed to achieve this while creating good jobs and producing life-saving medical isotopes. In fact, our pan-national isotope partnership includes the Saugeen Ojibway Nation. I would be happy to discuss this with you in more detail.

Bruce Power takes its responsibility for a net-zero future very seriously. From our net-zero 2050 strategy, including a commitment to be net zero by 2027 in our operations, to our issuance last year of the first-ever nuclear green bond, to the exploration of new nuclear technologies, we are demonstrating leadership in helping Canada reach its net-zero objectives.

In addition, through Bruce Power's project 2030, we are building toward a new site output goal of 7,000 megawatts by 2030, adding approximately 1,000 megawatts of clean energy to the Ontario grid in support of climate change targets and future clean energy needs through continued asset optimization, innovations and leveraging new technology.

We are proud to have been recognized, in the federal government's SMR action plan and in the interprovincial small modular reactor strategy unveiled in March, for our potential role in developing new nuclear technology. We are also pleased that the government provided support recently, through the strategic innovation fund, for the Westinghouse eVinci reactor project that Bruce Power is supporting. We also fully support the SMR project currently being undertaken by Ontario Power Generation at its Darlington site.

Bruce Power, along with our industry, was pleased to see the support for nuclear technology included in the 2022 budget, including support for SMRs from the Canada Infrastructure Bank and the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission.

With respect to regulation, Bruce Power believes there needs to be a focus on de-risking to enable small modular reactors and other nuclear innovation by streamlining the Impact Assessment Act requirements, licensing, and environmental assessments in general. If we are to meet our net-zero goals in the electricity sector by 2035, we must ensure that regulatory requirements, including impact assessments and licensing, can be done in a timeline that meets our needs for climate change target dates.

Creating optionality by providing and developing a path forward to site and technology selection will help attract much-needed private capital investment and help get the ball rolling on clean energy nuclear projects that we all know will be needed to further decarbonize our economy in sectors well beyond electricity.

To create these options and develop this needed momentum to secure a global leadership role for Canada, all levels of government must work with industry to share in the financial and risk challenges associated with environmental regulations and the CNSC licensing of the technology.

The federal government must also continue to help our industry innovate and lead the fight against climate change through clear policy signals. We continue to seek inclusion of nuclear in the federal green bond framework. Amending other existing programs and measures could create a level playing field for nuclear to compete with other clean technologies. In addition, nuclear and other supplemental technologies, such as hydrogen, should be looked at to further decarbonize our industries.

Canada is a world leader in nuclear, and its CANDU reactors are used around the world. The government needs to support and continue to build on this advantage.

We're at an inflection point in our fight against climate change, and we all understand that the time to take action is now. There has never been a more exciting time in our industry. We are saving lives with new cancer treatments—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Mr. Rencheck, I am so sorry to interrupt, but I know our members will be eager to hear from you in response to questions. Please accept my apologies.

We will go to Mr. Plummer from New Brunswick Power Corporation.

Go ahead, please.

[Brett Plummer, Chief Nuclear Officer and Vice-President Nuclear, New Brunswick Power Corporation]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good evening. My name is Brett Plummer. I am vice-president nuclear and chief nuclear officer at New Brunswick Power. Thank you for the invitation to provide information regarding how small modular reactor technology can help achieve Canada's climate change objectives and add to its economic resiliency.

As background, New Brunswick Power and the Province of New Brunswick were involved in the development of the pan-Canadian small modular reactor road map and action plan. Leveraging New Brunswick's 40 years of nuclear experience, we are actively working with other provinces, utilities and organizations, such as Saskatchewan, Ontario, Alberta, Ontario Power Generation, Bruce Power, SaskPower and Canadian Nuclear Laboratories for the pan-Canadian development and deployment of small modular reactors.

Canada will not achieve net zero by 2050 without nuclear. Many studies from reliable organizations support this conclusion. Renewables and hydro alone will not get Canada to net zero without an increase in nuclear power. Small modular reactor technology is an important technology that the federal government should be aggressively pursuing and supporting.

Small modular reactor technology will be part of the massive electrification of Canadian society in developing clean fuels and supporting clean manufacturing, clean transportation and clean heat while we retire coal and other carbon fuels.

Advanced small modular reactors integrate with renewables, and we will need all the clean energy generation we can build to support the 2050 decarbonization goals. Advanced small modular reactors are critical to support intermittent renewable energy sources when the sun does not shine and the wind does not blow. Advanced small modular reactors being developed in New Brunswick will have a high temperature output and can be used for cogeneration to play a major role in decarbonizing heavy industries, such as in western Canada.

Canada can broaden the nuclear supply chain to build new opportunities in eastern and western Canada. Modular construction methods, as well as advanced manufacturing methods, will also be developed to expand the economic impact across the country with first nations.

By virtue of Canada's being an early mover in the development and deployment of SMR technologies, the larger market opportunities beyond Canada to assist with global efforts to decarbonize are opened up. This current opportunity could be lost if SMRs are not supported. Canada can prosper economically by developing the IP and manufacturing capability in Canada, representing a significant contribution to combatting global climate change while building an economic benefit for Canada. We need a government to streamline policies to support the large-scale buildup of nuclear and to provide financial guarantees and backstops.

Thank you for your interest. I'm pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you so much, Mr. Plummer.

Again, we're really grateful to all of you for joining us.

We're going to try Mr. Hartwick. I have to be clear: We have to be able to hear, and it's going to be hard with the boom mike. We will try for a very short time, because I don't want to take time away from our members.

We'll see if we can hear you. Please try.

[Ken Hartwick, President and Chief Executive Officer, Ontario Power Generation Inc.]

Thank you very much. Can you hear me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

That sounds good.

Wait, no, Mr. Hartwick. I'm sorry, but the interpreters cannot hear you. I'm very sorry, but we cannot allow a presentation without translation. I apologize.