Science and Research Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Dr. John Bell]

I think what we're all talking about is trying to find ways to create more cohesive research programs that will advance these sorts of new discoveries faster. That's certainly one of the objectives of BioCanRx, but also of the neuroscience networks: that is, trying to find ways to rapidly get our discoveries out of the test tube and into people. That's really what I think we all think is the way to move forward.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Super.

I will move over to the nuclear side a little bit because it's all interlinked.

I represent Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, and a number of my constituents work at Bruce Power. Considering I'm subbing in for Mr. Lobb, who does represent that area, I think it's appropriate. I spent a number of years up in Petawawa in my previous career as well, so I know the Chalk River area quite well.

I think it's great news that you guys were given that new lease on life by the Government of Canada in 2014, and I applaud you for everything you're doing. Canada is recognized as a world leader with our isotope technology, in particular what's coming out.

Could you expand a little bit on the medical isotopes, not only this actinium-225 that you're focused on, but what percentage of the market is the global market and how you guys are leading the way for Canada in this field.

[Joseph McBrearty]

I'm not sure I can give you an exact figure on the percentage of the global market. Right now, I would say it's probably fairly small in the lutetium-177 area. In the alpha therapies that I mentioned, which is the actinium, we're really just on the cusp of starting to get companies involved in this. Right now we are still very much in pre-clinical trials, so when we look at the actual amount of material that's out there, as I said, it's very small.

One of the issues we have in actually being able to advance further development of these treatments is getting enough material so that the industry or the clinicians can be ready to use it.

I know I have just a couple of seconds here. We believe that Canada has the opportunity—not only with Bruce Power and the reactors at Bruce Power and OPG, but also with CNL—to take over the radioisotope leadership in the world. I think the talent is here, the production capabilities are here and the urgency is here as well.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Ruff.

We're glad you have joined us tonight.

Now we will go to Monsieur Lauzon, for five minutes, please.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Dr. Michaud and Dr. Bell, I'm coming back to you because what you have to say is compelling. We were talking about detecting metastases, where there were none, and how to detect them. You were on a roll and we interrupted you.

How can we use research and development? How can we help you fund these technologies?

[Dr. John Bell]

You're absolutely right. The earlier the detection, the better. Everybody knows that's the case. For some cancers that's fairly straightforward to do, but for many, as you say, they are silent. We don't know the answer.

What's happening is that people are starting to use—back to your original point about artificial intelligence—that kind of computing power to analyze samples from patients in a much more sophisticated way. For instance, we look for what's called circulating tumour DNA, which may be in your blood and be a very early marker of cancer. That sort of stuff is starting to happen now, applying artificial intelligence to deconvolute some of these things and make them possible.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

We know there are all sorts of food preservatives. Could artificial intelligence also process data about what people eat, where their food comes from, and what dietary patterns could influence cancer? With AI, could some of the data help you?

[Dr. John Bell]

Potentially, I think, to your point.... It's complex, obviously. Our diets are very complex, so using something like artificial intelligence, which has the computing power to begin to deconvolute these things, potentially could be used in a larger population study to say that this particular population eats a particular kind of food and this one doesn't. That sort of stuff could come out of it, I imagine.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

You're really making me think. It goes back a long way. It's very complex.

I represent the rural community and our farmers. We're in the process of reinventing fertilizer products. We learned that some of these products were more harmful to our health than others, and that contact with these fertilizer products was having an impact on animals and our food, in turn. It goes way back in the food chain. We're talking about an upswing of certain cancers that could be due to what we're eating.

Could you go so far as to work with our farmers and those who work on the food chain?

[Dr. John Bell]

I think so, for sure. That makes a lot of sense, actually. My son is a scientist as well. He works with farmers all the time in trying to understand different aspects of it. I think that's totally a viable pathway forward, for sure.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Okay.

Dr. Rouleau, you've talked a lot about high-level cooperation. You also mentioned that, unlike other fields, you are recruiting some people from the United States.

What's inspiring the most talented people from the United States to join you in your field? It certainly isn't our cold winters. You must be attracting them with something.

[Guy Rouleau]

I'll give you a concrete example. A woman, a world authority at Yale University, was offered a position as the director of an institute in Germany with a budget of $100 million. When we invited her to come here, she said that here was where she wanted to be. I asked her why and she said that it would cost her $100 million to build what we already have at the Montreal Neurological Institute and Hospital. She also told me that the members of our community were very collaborative. She is therefore coming because she was attracted by our infrastructures and the people who would be her colleagues.

Last week I also met a man of considerable renown from New York. He too wanted to come here. When I asked him why, he said that it was a place where people can work together, rather than the competitive environment typical of the United States. He added that we could provide him with all the equipment and colleagues needed to do exploratory work of the best kind in science.

When you have critical mass and quality, you can attract superstars.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you.

I only have 20 or 30 seconds left. Because you are the leading light in several fields of nuclear science, I'd like to ask you if you intend to work aggressively on actinium for the future treatment of cancer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Monsieur Lauzon, I'm sorry. That's the end. Perhaps you might—

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Could the witness send us his reply in writing? I'd like to know more about actinium.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Yes, there you go. That's excellent. Thanks to both of you for that.

Now, if we could, we'll go to Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Michaud and Dr. Bell, I'm pleased to see you here in person.

Ms. Michaud, in 2016, the National Cancer Institute launched Cancer Moonshot, an ambitious initiative to combat cancer. In February 2022, Joe Biden, the President of the United States, announced ambitious objectives to reduce the U.S. mortality rate attributable to cancer by at least 50% over the next 25 years.

How can Canada draw inspiration from projects like these?

[Dr. Stéphanie Michaud]

We can do so in many ways. The first would involve support for translational research in Canada. That's something that is simply not subsidized here.

We subsidize the part of it that is related to biomanufacturing, and preclinical to clinical work. That enabled us to be remarkably successful. However, you need to be really capable of taking the results—our discoveries—from our laboratories and convert them into products that can be tested on, and potentially cure, human beings. It's essential.

We have to do that in Canada before even beginning discussions with our American and European colleagues, and those in Great Britain in particular. To have a large-scale mission, you really need to be able to treat all forms of cancer and make them curable. That's our organization's vision.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Michaud.

Over the past few years, as we were discussing, investments in biomanufacturing and the life sciences enabled you to pursue your mission. These investments have now ended.

Are the federal investments of the past few years adequate to allow your organization to develop and pursue its mission?

[Dr. Stéphanie Michaud]

Unfortunately, the grants program we had been receiving was eliminated in December 2018. There have therefore not been any programs until the launch of the Strategic Science Fund, under which we have, of course, submitted an application. We are awaiting the outcome because our current funding will come to an end in March 2023.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

If you were not to receive this funding, what would be the concrete impact on your organization?

[Dr. Stéphanie Michaud]

It would mean having to end our preclinical studies and our clinical trials.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

What progress was made under the Cancer Moonshot initiative launched in the United States in 2016?

[Dr. Stéphanie Michaud]

This 2016 initiative in the United States was so successful that it's one of the reasons why immunotherapy…