Evidence of meeting #31 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was scientists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to cut you off. We are out of time there. I encourage you to submit a brief afterwards on the subject.
With that, I'd like to say a big thank you to all of our witnesses today. We will suspend briefly before moving on to our next panel.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor
Welcome back, everybody.
We are now moving into our second panel.
Up first for an opening statement of five minutes, we have Dr. Hajibabaei.
Welcome to the committee.
Dr. Mehrdad Hajibabaei Professor, As an Individual
Thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman and respected MPs, members of the science and technology committee, thank you for providing me this opportunity to speak about the important topic of citizen science.
I speak here as the scientific lead of a highly collaborative project called STREAM, which stands for sequencing the rivers for environmental assessment and monitoring. This project was launched in 2019 and is deeply rooted in over 20 years of research and development in Canada and internationally.
My academic base is the University of Guelph, at which I'm a professor of molecular biodiversity and also the chief scientific officer of the centre for biodiversity genomics, which has led the world in the application of DNA-based tools for biodiversity discovery. This week, we celebrated the 20-year anniversary of the introduction of DNA bar-coding and the bar code of life program.
DNA bar-coding uses species-specific regions of the genome for distinguishing species. Under our guidance, the scientific community has now sequenced over 10 million specimens from about 400,000 species, providing a powerful biological database for species identification in a range of settings from food safety and security to species conservation.
We have also pioneered the bulk identification of species in biological communities in aquatic ecosystems using a technique known as environmental DNA metabarcoding, which uses high-throughput sequencing platforms. This approach is transforming biodiversity monitoring in support of water quality assessments.
Given its large land area and significant remoteness, Canada represents a major challenge for river biomonitoring. Climate change and various development projects pose more challenges for timely and effective biomonitoring programs. Current tools are not accurate and scalable. Over 15 years ago, I started collaborating with scientists from Environment Canada and Parks Canada on utilizing DNA-based biodiversity tools for addressing a chronic lack of biomonitoring data. However, I soon realized that a major bottleneck we are facing is related to generating samples from rivers across Canada on a timely basis.
Together with collaborators from Environment Canada, WWF Canada and Living Lakes Canada, which has representatives here today, we launched STREAM in 2019 with funding from a competition presented by Genome Canada. We developed a modular program whereby community groups, including several indigenous communities, became partners in STREAM.
To ensure effective engagement of community members, we developed a standard training module by taking advantage of the CABIN framework. All our citizen scientists are certified for gathering samples and various site metadata using a standard operating procedure. We have engaged over 100 individuals from many communities, and they have collectively gathered over 1,400 samples from watersheds across Canada.
Our objective has been to generate biodiversity reports for community groups in less than two months. We have generated over 70 reports thus far and have also established an online knowledge portal with various tools for visualizing and reporting data. Because STREAM samples are collected by local communities, our program continued even during the pandemic.
Since our Genome Canada funding ran out, STREAM is now partially supported by a grant from Environment Canada. We also have philanthropy funding from the Illumina foundation, an American genomics company.
Given the importance of generating knowledge to sustain Canadian freshwater ecosystems, we are hoping to build a more sustainable funding model for STREAM and to expand the approach for other taxonomic groups such as fish and vertebrates, as well as hosts and vectors of infectious agents such as emerging zoonotic viruses.
I would be happy to address any questions. Thank you.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor
Thank you so much.
Now we'll move to our second presenter on the second panel.
We'll have Ms. Hartwig for five minutes.
Kat Hartwig Executive Director, Living Lakes Canada
Good morning.
My name is Kat Hartwig. I'm the executive director and co-founder of Living Lakes Canada.
I've worked in the NGO environmental sector for 33 years, focusing the last two decades on citizen-science water stewardship and community-based water monitoring.
I am honoured to be speaking to you today from Brisco, B.C., the traditional territory of the Ktunaxa and Secwepemc nations. Living Lakes Canada recognizes indigenous people as the rightful caretakers of their unceded territories.
Joining us today are my colleagues, Raegan Mallinson and Georgia Peck, managers of our biomonitoring and lake monitoring programs.
In 2022, the Canadian Climate Institute issued a report stating that, by 2025, over 90% of climate impacts and disasters will involve water. This will slow down Canada's economic growth by $25 billion annually. It is clear that the climate crisis is a water crisis and must be solved collectively. Governments at all levels and all scales play a critical role. However, it will require many more hands on deck to address a challenge that should have been addressed 30 years ago.
Through community-based water monitoring, our governments can mobilize and build upon the passions of thousands of citizens who have deeply vested interests in maintaining watershed health, water security and, thus, food security. We also need to be able to manage adaptively in response to the unforeseeable, climate-driven changes in the water cycle.
Living Lakes Canada is a national, award-winning charitable organization. Our science-based programs range from groundwater, lake, stream and wetland monitoring to lake foreshore health assessments, biomonitoring for restoration, and a national lake blitz. For hydrometrics, we monitor flows for fish and fire suppression and apply a water-balance approach to facilitate future water budget needs.
We build open-source data hubs, which are data repositories for water monitoring groups and are interoperable with federal and provincial databases such as CABIN. Data transparency and accessibility provide the foundation for data democratization.
In 2018, Living Lakes Canada co-convened a national round table for indigenous and non-indigenous community-based water monitoring leaders, including policy experts from ECCC and CIRNAC. We developed 60 recommendations for the federal government, which can be found in the supporting documents both in French and in English.
The overarching recommendation themes were, first, capacity building by building on existing community monitoring efforts and supporting youth programming and cross-sectoral partnerships; second, efficient and effective monitoring by ensuring that data monitoring standards and protocols are universal, transparent and built on best practices; third, data management by scaling up open-data management efforts both within and outside of government; and finally, regional and national collaboration by increasing efficiencies and building synergies versus silos.
Water governance in Canada is complex and can have multijurisdictional gridlocks. Community groups offer untapped local capacity and can play a unifying role in ensuring that the health of fresh water will help meet the Canada Water Act mandates while advancing whole-of-government priorities.
In closing, my strongest suggestion is that the federal government—with all due respect—catch up. We are well beyond proof of concept on this topic. The government must support the growing momentum around indigenous and non-indigenous community-based water monitoring. Regardless of the vehicle you choose to use, be it a sleek Canadian water agency or otherwise—whatever the mechanics—it needs to be nimble, have low barriers for citizen entry, build upon existing best practices and initiatives and, most importantly, ensure high-quality control for outputs.
Water monitoring to address climate impacts takes time and money, neither of which we have the luxury of wasting.
Thank you to the organizers for this opportunity today, and thank you to the standing committee for all of the work that you do for all of us.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor
Thank you so much for that.
Now, we'll move on to our final opening statement.
Mr. Stewart.
Carl Stewart Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Good afternoon. My name is Carl Stewart, and thank you very much for this invitation.
I farm wheat, canola, soybeans and peas in Manitoba. I'm also a director for the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association. We represent grassroots wheat farmers. Our goal is to promote policies that strengthen the sector, help Canada be a world leader in wheat production and ultimately benefit consumers with healthy and affordable food staples.
I gave a great deal of thought to this invitation. As farmers, we deal every day in science, the science of soil preservation, crop management and fertilizer. We care deeply about science and technology, because those help us become better farmers and deliver higher quality and better yields.
We have always worked closely with Agriculture Canada, a department that was—was—in the business of leveraging science to make Canadian agriculture safe, healthy and productive. I'll say more on that later.
Good science doesn’t just come from scientists in research labs or universities. Good science also comes from the citizens who practise it. Doctors, for example, are scientists insofar as they apply what they learn in constantly evolving and experimental settings with their patients to see what works best.
We are worried that science is taking a back seat to ideology. I’ll give you an example. The current federal government says that it wants farmers to reduce fertilizer use to help it meet commitments to greenhouse gas reduction. The trouble is that there is no science that backs up that policy position.
It’s simple. With less fertilizer, we will grow less wheat. World demand for wheat will not decline, so less Canadian wheat will be produced and more will be produced overseas by countries whose farmers use far more fertilizer than Canadian farmers. It’s called carbon leakage. Cutting our fertilizer use will cause more fertilizer-based CO2. It’s a simple calculus, but it’s not being applied by our government.
Recently we learned that Agriculture Canada, which used to be committed to using science to help Canadian farmers grow more crops, has now changed its mandate to “mitigating and adapting to climate change”. That scares farmers, because now Ag Canada cares less about what grows in the Palliser triangle and more about Paris accords.
As for citizen science, well, there may be a role for it, but we worry that citizen science can easily be captured by the dominant ideology of the day. Instead, we would advocate, as far as agriculture is concerned, that we leave the science to scientists and practitioners. The greatest benefit to consumers will come from scientists and practitioners working together to increase the food supply to keep it safe, healthy and affordable. Let’s keep ideology out of the food supply.
Thank you.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Corey Tochor
Thank you so much for that.
We're now moving on to our six-minute round of questioning. First up for the Conservatives is Mr. Mazier.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Stewart, citizen science involves listening to citizens when developing policy. You mentioned the government's fertilizer policy. Did the Liberal government consult with the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association before introducing their fertilizer reduction policy?
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Not at all, unfortunately.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
I assume you know many farmers across Canada. Are you aware of any farmers who were consulted on the government's fertilizer policy before it was announced?
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Unfortunately, once again, I do not.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
If farmers are expected to meet the Liberals' fertilizer reduction targets, what would be the impact on Canadian food production?
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
I'll reference a report that Meyers Norris Penny did for Fertilizer Canada. The report is titled, “Implications of a Total Emissions Reduction Target on Fertilizer”.
This is based on a 20% and not a 30% reduction. Yields, of course, will go down through time as soil reserves of nutrients get depleted. If the implementation were to start in 2023 out to 2030, Myers Norris Penny predicts a loss of 23.6 bushels an acre of canola, 67.9 bushels an acre of corn and 36.16 bushels of wheat per acre. That would all essentially be loss that would have to be made up elsewhere.
Conservative
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
That's correct. There would be less food, so supply goes down, demand goes up and costs go up substantially. Canada is a large exporter of these crops, so world markets would see a considerable disruption.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
How will this government's fertilizer plan affect the incomes of family farms?
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
The short answer is significantly negatively.
The problem with farming is that all the money is in the last few bushels and acres. Of course, these numbers change from year to year depending on input prices and crop prices, but the first 60%, 70% or 80% goes straight to creditors.
You have pay for equipment loans. You have to pay for crop inputs. It's those last few bushels an acre that go straight into the farmer's bank account. A reduction in yields would be a disaster.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
It would make you less competitive with other exporters as well. Do you want to explain that a bit? Where does this put us on the world stage in terms of farmers competing with the rest of the world?
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Canada is already one of the highest-cost producers there is of agricultural commodities. We're furthest from the destination markets. There's lots of red tape. My family actually got started farming in 1980, when interest rates were high. The only way the farm managed to be where it is today is that everybody worked like dogs for a long period of time and made a bunch of sacrifices. It's not an easy industry.
If you were to take all the capital involved with farming and compare it to annualized stock returns in any particular index, let's just say that it's not even close. The index outperforms farm gate returns any day of the week.
Could you repeat the question? I lost track there.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
That's okay. I have more questions for you. You did good there. You answered it.
Yesterday, the agriculture minister stated, “We are working with farmers for farmers.” Do you agree with her statement?
Director, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
I strongly do not. We feel like we've been left out.
On your previous questions there, we haven't had any consultation at all. If you're actually for farmers, you would think that the bare courtesy would be to do at least some consultation to see what the effects are. We feel that we haven't been fairly represented in Ottawa for quite some time, and it seems to be getting worse, not better.
Conservative
Dan Mazier Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB
It's clear that the government isn't listening to farmers. What message do you have for the politicians who are pushing forward with the fertilizer reduction policy?