Science and Research Committee on April 25th, 2023

[Valerie Bradford, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Okay. Well, that was short.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas. You have two minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll make it quick, since I don't get a lot of time.

Ms. Jones, you have an impressive track record and a lot of experience. At the committee's last meeting, Mr. Hinton told us something quite telling: only 7% of IP generated under the Pan-Canadian Artificial Intelligence Strategy is actually owned by Canadians. That's hardly anything. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can better protect and grow our IP.

[Krista Jones]

Thank you very much for that question.

The majority of global patents are held in the large global multinationals or in the advanced industries. What we don't have in Canada is global foreign multinationals in advanced industries that are headquartered here. For us to actually increase our percentage ownership in global IP, we need to grow big companies. We need to grow big domestic companies and turn them into acquirers of IP and the destination for where they need to go.

That goes to the whole thesis and premise of why MaRS exists: It's to be able to help our companies get to that scale and to that capability in terms of what we're looking at.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That's great, Ms. Jones. Thank you very much.

You mentioned the importance of companies being headquartered here, in Canada, when it comes to acquiring and keeping IP. Are there other things we should do? How do our policies compare with those of other countries? Do other jurisdictions have policies, programs or initiatives that help to secure business IP?

[Krista Jones]

I think we actually have a lot of proposals on the table around what to do to protect our IP. I don't think I have anything new to add to a lot of the testimony that has already occurred in this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Great. Thank you.

Mr. Cannings, can you bring us home, please? You have two and a half minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'll give Mr. Leaman another opportunity to expand on this issue of indigenous knowledge.

I know that you said it was a difficult and complex issue, but you implied that work was being done on some of these questions. You were rushed at the end of your last answer. What are the important questions that still need to be answered? What progress is being made?

[Jarret Leaman]

Thank you for the question.

I think some of the progress that's being made and that we've seen is particularly in regard to using data and turning it into IP for tech, for example. Local indigenous governments and regional institutions like the Assembly of First Nations, Chiefs of Ontario and the First Nations Information Governance Centre have really come together and put forward a lot of policies, principles and practices around indigenous data and how that is collected and used. The next piece is on how it's sold.

I think working with those and understanding the integration of UNDRIP and its principles will also help indigenous people share their traditional knowledge and work, with patents potentially, with other parts of indigenous communities around the world. For example, I was able to participate in a trade mission with New Zealand and Australia with the Government of Canada. We were able to do a lot of work on data sovereignty and IP with our indigenous partners and colleagues through that mission.

Encouraging more participation in those international conversations is important, because indigenous people do make up a large portion of the land base in the world. We do have a lot of commonwealth partners that are working on this as well.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Quickly, then, are there any stories from New Zealand, Australia and other parts of the world that bear on this and that we could learn from?

[Jarret Leaman]

Yes. I think what they've done is just like our first nation governance information centre that we have. It created an outline and a framework around how the ownership, possession and control of indigenous knowledge and indigenous data are used.

There are different approaches in different parts of the world. For example, in Australia, they just passed, I believe it was called.... They did an indigenous IP initiative. I'm sorry that I don't have it right now, but I will submit it in a brief.

There are examples of international work that's being done. I also have been able to participate in working with an organization largely in copyright and in publishing, and there is work being done from a Canadian company that's leading indigenous innovation in regard to publishing on the world stage as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you very much. That was a great use of time, everybody.

These were tremendous conversations that we've had this morning. It was hard for me not to jump in as a co-founder of Innovation Guelph. I spent 28 years in the machine automation space, where we did a lot of work on IP, but you guys were fantastic in your questions and your answers.

Thank you to the witnesses for the preparation and for the submissions that you'll give us in writing for anything that we didn't quite have enough time to cover.

Our next meeting is scheduled for Thursday, April 27. There will be a notice of motion coming out. I understand the clerk has a full list of witnesses for us for that meeting already.

As I mentioned, next Tuesday I'd like to have a subcommittee meeting for the first hour so that I can get up to speed with the vice-chairs and see where we're heading as a committee and get some consensus around that. We've had some discussion today. We don't want to take committee time on that, so Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, thank you for taking just some committee time, but that's not fair to you.

In the second hour, we'll look at the draft report for the international moon launch that has been discussed.

Now I'm looking for agreement to adjourn our meeting.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.