Science and Research Committee on Feb. 17th, 2022

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

We heard you loud and clear when you made your opening remarks and you said that in terms of the value of research—I actually wrote it down—the best approach in the world that you hope for this committee is that it's “evidence-based” and “non-partisan” and really for research and science. That's really our motive here, so we're really excited about that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Ms. Diab, I'm so sorry to stop you. I know how interested you are in the subject area.

With that, we'll go to Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Davidson, in 2017, after the Naylor report, you wrote: “The Naylor report is a historic opportunity to reposition Canada as a global leader in research and discovery.”

That report was tabled almost 5 years ago now. What is your analysis of the current situation?

[Paul Davidson]

The work that the Naylor report did was important. It was completed five years ago. It sketched a road map for Canada, and there has been some significant action on that. I heard David Naylor's testimony last night, and I think he would concur that for a government report, much has been accomplished.

The landscape has changed in the ensuing five years. Some of the challenges remain the same and some have become more urgent. As I was saying in my opening testimony, some of those initial investments are starting to age out and flatten out. At the same time, our international competitors are reinvesting at new scale with new urgency. We want to make sure people don't think that, well, we did that report five years ago and

it's all taken care of.

It's not complete. There's more work to be done, and we need to take into account what we've learned through the pandemic about how we can invest.

If I might take one more minute, I was really pleased by your question about how we make sure that all of Canada benefits from these investments. I have been to the Université du Québec à Rimouski and I've been to the Université du Québec en Abitibi-Témiscamingue, and we can see world-class, first-class research being done in those communities for the benefit of those communities, for the benefit of Quebec and for the benefit of Canada.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

A quick answer, Mr. Davidson. If there were one urgent thing to be done following the recommendations of the Naylor report five years ago, what would it be?

[Paul Davidson]

Well, I hate to sound like a broken record on this. You've noted our previous recommendations: It has to be sustained, scalable investments that put Canada at the front ranks. I agree with what Rob has said about the need to better coordinate and better align on strategy, but his first message was also that we need to make sure that the base is strong. That's essential to be able to move forward.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Davidson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas.

We will now go to Mr. Cannings for two and a half minutes, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you again.

I'm going to go right to you, Ms. Mainville-Neeson. You mentioned that you had a list of some of the asks that Universities Canada had.

One of them was for $770 million—I think that's per year—for student scholarships for graduate students, for post-docs and so on. I recently met with the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, and they were asking for an increase of $120 million a year in that pot. Is that the same number? Will an addition of $120 million add up to $770 million or...?

[Ann Mainville-Neeson]

Honestly, Mr. Cannings, I'm not sure I can do the math right now on whether we have exactly the same numbers.

We have met with the Canadian Alliance of Student Associations, or CASA, and we very much agree on many platforms.

I'd be happy to provide that information in writing to make sure it's 100% clear for the committee.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

That would be good.

We talk a lot about the talent we have to nurture and keep in Canada. Students, graduate students and post-docs are the core of that. I know those funds have been stagnant for many years. For a long time we've needed to increase it.

[Ann Mainville-Neeson]

Absolutely. Thank you.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Madam Chair, I'll stop there, because I'm probably close to the time.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Cannings. I know this subject area is really important to you.

If the committee would allow me to ask a short question, we will adjourn afterwards.

Mr. Davidson, I wonder if you would be so kind as to tell us whether and how the pandemic has had an impact on equity, diversity and inclusion in our research community.

[Paul Davidson]

I've really enjoyed the conversation today, because we can look at the landscape over a decade or two and see that it was really a bold work of parliamentarians to create organizations like Genome Canada and CFI.

One of the more recent ambitions and investments made has been in making sure that our institutions and researchers fully reflect the diversity of Canada, to promote equity, diversity and inclusion. There have been some real strides made there, but the pandemic risked undoing decades of progress in that regard. It had that risk because, particularly for women researchers and researchers from minority communities, the added burdens of managing through the pandemic have interrupted and postponed the trajectory that many of those researchers were on.

There is outstanding research being done by researchers of all kinds in Canada, but one of the things we have conversation with the granting council and others on is how we recognize that two, two and a half or three years out of a researcher's prime have been disrupted by the pandemic? That's probably more a conversation we have with the granting councils than with members of Parliament.

We have made progress on equity, diversity and inclusion. There is more to be done. As we emerge out of the pandemic, this is one of the areas we're going to want to pay special attention to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you for that, Mr. Davidson.

I know our committee would like to thank all our witnesses. This was a wonderful discussion.

I thank all our committee members for their tremendous interest in this subject area.

I thank our clerk, our analysts, our interpreters and everyone who supports this committee.

Thank you all. The meeting is adjourned.