Evidence of meeting #60 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was entities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
With the research security guidelines, there's a—
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
They read the guidelines, and then they fill out an application for the study they'd like to do.
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
There's a risk assessment form they have to fill out for these grants, which are subject to that framework.
I want to add that research security centres are being established across the country, in which there is input from the security agencies. Those are being funded, so the universities are not on their own. They're giving them advice on how to do that.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Okay.
So, it would be the professor or the researcher who would fill out this form, based on the information they would have, and then you would approve the project.
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
They have to explain how they're going to mitigate the risks from the partnership. So far, this applies only to partnerships with private entities. These are projects for which we have to put the researchers in touch with not-for-profits and companies.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
If you identified PRC military universities, colleges, known organizations or entities, would that immediately eliminate that project from being approved, or would it still be possible for one to squeak in?
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
For anything that obviously cannot be mitigated, we refer to the security agencies, because they are the experts.
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
I think 60 or so have been referred.
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
Yes. Over 30 of them have been rejected.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Lloyd Longfield
That's perfect—we got to the end of that. That's terrific.
Now we go over to Dr. Jaczek for six minutes.
Go ahead, please.
October 25th, 2023 / 5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony.
I'm going to follow up a little bit on where Mr. Lobb was going. First of all, is every application for an alliance grant subject to a risk assessment form?
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
Those would be the ones that are in partnership with private companies—
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
All of those have to fill out the risk assessment form.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Okay.
Of those, you have now told us that some 30 were actually rejected. There was a preliminary review. I think you said originally that 96% were approved and then 4% were sent, and of that 4%, 30 were rejected.
How many did that 4% represent?
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
It was roughly half. I think the number was 34 out of 62.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
There was consultation with CSIS, with the cybersecurity—
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
I want to be clear. They're the ones who gave us that advice. We are not experts in security. We are an agency for funding science. That relationship and the input we get from the security agencies are very important to us. They give us their recommendations about the risk level.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
We understand that when applications are made, this is the process.
Is there any retrospective look at existing grants that have been given? Are you reviewing those in any way or is this only for new applications?
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
We have not been asked to do so. We follow the direction of the Government of Canada.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Do you think it would be useful to look retrospectively?
5:20 p.m.
President, Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council
I think the panorama in the world has changed over the past few years. I don't know if it would necessarily be helpful.
We want everything to be secure. From the moment this framework was established, we have wanted complete security. We really believe it's very important to protect Canadian science and Canadian engineers. We should invest our time and our efforts in stopping whatever bad things might happen.