Science and Research Committee on April 30th, 2024

[Dr. Kari Kramp]

Yes, since legalization and even prior to it, there's a recognition that research on the subject of cannabis is important. With it essentially being prohibited for so many years, there's so much knowledge to learn. There are so many studies, and so many of them are anecdotal, about looking at the potential medical benefits of it.

We've been fortunate to receive funding through, I believe, CARDF, the colleges applied research development fund, to conduct this research. We have focused our research on looking at cannabis from a quality perspective and from a consistency and safety perspective. These are items that we're able to focus on in terms of the broader environment.

We recognize that more institutions are moving forward with research licences to investigate cannabis, but there are a lot of challenges in doing that. It's a lot of paperwork, and it's not something to go into lightly. Despite cannabis being legalized, research is very challenging.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Thank you for the point, and thank you for the questions.

I will give a brief welcome to the students from Havergal College in Toronto. It's great to have you here with your interest in democracy, and I hope this helps with your studies.

Now we'll go to our five-minute rounds, starting with Mr. Soroka, please.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I'll be passing my time to Ms. Rempel Garner.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

I'd like to go back to Ms. Chrétien and the line of questions that I had in the first round.

Do you, in your role as vice-president of research, have any concerns about Conestoga College operating a research enterprise, given the conditions that Conestoga international students are facing as well as the issues that instructors have raised in the media?

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

I think, as a human being, that it's reasonable to find it upsetting when students have challenges. I've been a student, and I think that our current housing affordability crisis in Canada, especially in our major urban centres, is unfortunate. I know that certainly some of the research that we're engaged in is looking at housing affordability and looking at engaging our students, all of them, in identifying innovative solutions to addressing those challenges.

I'm sorry; I feel that I've lost track of your question a little bit. Would you mind repeating it?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That's okay. I'll ask in a different way.

In the first round of questions that I asked of you, I think you suggested that your portfolio was separate from the portfolio of student experience. Is that correct?

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

It's separate from student recruitment, yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

A clause in the preamble of the agreement on the administration of agency grants and awards by research institutions—which, in part, governs the eligibility of an institution to receive federal research funding—states, “Whereas the Institution is engaged in research, research training, and/or research related activities, in Canada”. This underpins a foundational principle for the rationale of federal government expenditures on research, which is the training of students, yet you're saying that your portfolio doesn't necessarily overlap with that.

Don't you think it's problematic if the government is allocating funds to a research enterprise when there are clear issues with the ability of the institution to address student experience, given that what is prioritized are high levels of international student permitting as opposed to student experience?

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

I don't really think that my portfolio is separate from student experience. I think it's something that I personally care very deeply about. I do think that, certainly within the research enterprise, our goal really is to provide amazing student experiences.

I go back to the statistics that I shared with you earlier about graduation rates, student employment rates and employer satisfaction rates.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Do you think there are any issues with student experience at Conestoga right now?

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

I think there are issues with student experience probably everywhere, unfortunately. I can also share that I am also a part-time instructor in the evenings at the college, so I'm grateful to have had the experience of also acting as an educator for students and engaging directly with our students, both domestic and international.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

God bless you.

Your president, John Tibbits, was pictured in a CBC article that was released this morning. The administration declined comment, but issued a statement that said, “Students who come to Conestoga from other countries have enabled us to reinvest our surplus in new buildings and in-demand programs, both of which drive economic growth.”

An argument for federal research expenditures is often the driver of economic growth, as it should be. However, how can an institution drive economic growth when there's a clear dichotomy between student experience and institutional surplus and economic growth?

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

I apologize, but I spent most of my time this morning preparing to talk about research and innovation, and I didn't see the CBC article.

I think the way applied research drives economic growth is through partnerships directly with community and with industry, and by engaging, as my colleague from Okanagan so eloquently put it, teams of students and researchers to come together to solve problems.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How can those students come together to solve problems when they can't afford to eat?

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

Of course that's a terrible situation, and it's one we see across our country right now.

I again go back to our student data, which suggests that the vast majority—I think over 85% or 90% of students—are actually satisfied—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Quickly, in the time I have left—

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

We're actually out of time now. We are over time by about six seconds.

We'll go to our next questioner, Ms. Metlege Diab, please, for five minutes.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our panellists today. I recognize that all three institutions are colleges, so thank you for all the work you do in your respective communities to enrich the lives of the students and also the community, and for the help with the societal issues we talked about.

Let me ask a question for the colleges.

Budget 2024, “Fairness for Every Generation”, proposes the creation of a capstone research funding organization, which will include the granting councils within its structure, as well as the creation of a new advisory council on science and innovation. The question that I have, in the time that I have, is this: Do you have any recommendation for how this new funding organization and advisory council can be structured to better support research in post-secondary institutions, but in your case here, in colleges?

Then also, the other part is that we heard from the U15 group as well as other universities about the research collaborations that happen among universities and hospitals, and colleges as well. I'm wondering if you also see that in your respective communities.

I know we're limited in time, so why don't I start with Loyalist College and whoever would like to take that?

[Dr. Kalina Kamenova]

One recommendation I give to the advisory council organization is to engage in a more extensive stakeholder engagement process: Work more closely with the college sector. There are over 120 post-secondary institutions across Canada, and it will be very beneficial for the advisory council if we are consulted on matters related to research funding and distribution of research funding, as well as about the development of new funding programs. That is one suggestion.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

I will go to Dr. Fassina, please.

[Dr. Neil Fassina]

I have a couple of recommendations.

As it pertains to the governance of a different approach to that funding environment, make sure that the universities, colleges, polytechnics, CEGEPs and industry are all sitting at the table with an equal voice, recognizing that if institutions are willing to state that they have the partnerships across all three levels, then all three levels having a say should reinforce the role each of those institutions has at that combined table.

In terms of your question, “Does collaborative research happen?”, in our case yes, it does, between us and the Okanagan campus of UBC, in areas like aerospace and robotics. Those partnerships are indeed alive and are producing well.

What I and a number of my colleagues are reinforcing with the committee today is that in order for those partnerships to truly thrive, the colleges, polytechnics and CEGEPs need to receive the parity of esteem that is given to our research universities.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much.

With the time remaining, Dr. Chrétien, I'd like your perspective, having been at Dalhousie University in Nova Scotia and Ottawa University and wherever. I appreciate very much everything you've had to say here this morning.

[Dr. Michelle Chrétien]

Thank you very much for the question.

I agree with what's been shared by my colleagues and I look forward to the creation of this capstone foundation with the hope that it may simplify as well the research funding enterprise and create more efficiency in terms of how funds are distributed.

I strongly agree with the suggestion that there be an equal seat at the table for the various institutions that make up the rich fabric of our research and innovation enterprise here in Canada.

I think a focus of this new foundation or agency on higher TRL-level research—research that is more applied and mission-driven—could be of great benefit to colleges.

Briefly, to the question of collaboration, the answer is yes as well. We do engage in collaboration with our university partners. From a funding agency perspective, I think the ask would really be around being allowed to lead as well in those engagements, in addition to following and partnering.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Lloyd Longfield]

Great. Thank you very much.

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Kamenova, in concrete terms, what could the government do to better promote applied research, but also to ensure better collaboration between the various levels of government and to meet the needs of businesses?