Science and Research Committee on May 9th, 2024

[Dr. Jackie Dawson]

Yes, always.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Obviously, there are always limited resources available.

[Dr. Jackie Dawson]

[Inaudible—Editor] is to leverage and connect, and that's what we need to do.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Exactly. I understand. That is where we need a formal strategy so the available resources can be channelled to important areas. That can stop the duplication of work so that it can all be done.

In addition to the strategy, is there any—

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you. That's our time, sorry. I know we could all go on and on with this study.

Now we have MP Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I find it interesting that we're talking about coal-fired plants in Germany. What about a certain pipeline named Trans Mountain, which will make it possible to take 890,000 barrels of oil a day from the oil sands. That will certainly affect the permafrost too. The government should take a good look at how clean its hands are before comparing Canada to other countries that don't always have the best climate change record.

Dr. Voyer, you mentioned in your opening remarks that the Arctic is the fastest warming region on the planet. In your opinion, how could increased funding for research in the Arctic improve our capacity to fight global warming?

[Dr. Normand Voyer]

That's a great question. It could take two hours to answer it, but I'll try to do it quickly.

We've already talked a lot about coordination and funding, among other things. What we need but don't have in Canada is a clear long-term strategy. The key word is “continuity”. Money is often invested in one-off activities. For example, the Canada Foundation for Innovation holds a competition. That's not a good way to do research in the Arctic. It's not good for Canada and its Arctic strategy.

The Arctic is changing, and the only way to understand and adapt to those changes is to have precise environmental data on the ground. That requires a network of research stations, environmental stations, researchers who will work together over a long period. At the moment, the problem is that we have ad-hoc initiatives that play out over a fairly short period of time. We're always changing, adapting and redoing everything.

We need a long-term strategy. The Europeans have 15-year framework programs, for example. That would be much better adapted and would allow for research continuity. We can't conduct research on climate change and its impact in Canada's far north if we establish a three-year program and then replace it with another program so we have to change everything and submit applications over again. Therefore, we need continuity in research.

Of course, we need more money, because it's extremely important for Canada and because it's extremely important for the communities. We haven't talked a lot about the impact of climate change on communities. When you go up north, you see it every day. Changes in the greening of the north are affecting food, food security and lifestyles, including the migration patterns of animals that are traditionally food sources, and also medicinal plants.

So what's it going to take? We need a long-term strategy founded on cooperation and coordination. It must include an Arctic research strategy that will provide the main guidelines for ArcticNet, as well as all the organizations and research groups that work on northern research, including traditional knowledge, obviously.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Voyer.

If I understand correctly, to summarize what you said, science and research are all about the data. Right now, no database has been set up where you can share your data and your research, regardless of where it's done in Canada, like the research you do in the northern regions or in the Arctic.

So that's the priority.

[Dr. Normand Voyer]

Absolutely. There are tons of data; it's sent out everywhere.

The primary goal should be to work together. Financial support should make it possible to put all the data together, digest it and make it available to the communities, but also work with them to show them our results and explain that they too can play a role in finding solutions. They could incorporate traditional knowledge, the changes that elders and knowledge keepers are experiencing in the communities.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Dr. Voyer.

I'd also like to underscore what you and a number of witnesses have already said, namely the problems identified by Arctic researchers and the disastrous consequences they're going to have on our future.

[Dr. Normand Voyer]

It would take me two hours again to answer you.

We're very familiar with climate change.

If you read Warwick Vincent's review, you will understand that these changes are not just happening in the Arctic. The current changes happening there are having an impact in the south, much more than people think. Last summer there was a lot of talk about the massive wildfires, and the smoke from them that ended up in New York. That gave us good international press.

The consequences will continue to escalate as the Arctic changes very rapidly. They say that it's warming two to three times faster than the rest of the world, and that has consequences here. Every action has a reaction. Sea levels will rise, and we'll have more coastal erosion. It's not just in the north; it's going to be around the globe.

You know, it's a very small world.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Yes, Dr. Voyer, thank you for saying that.

I think it's important that we wake up in some cases and realize how significant these changes are. When it's not happening in our own backyard, it can seem, I wouldn't say unreal, but sometimes like a lower priority, maybe.

[Dr. Normand Voyer]

What we don't have and need most is stable funding.

We're having trouble maintaining and upgrading our stations, and sharing our data. A trip to the north to co-build can cost $15,000 to $30,000. The organizations' current research grants are not adapted to that.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you very much for that.

Now we will turn to MP Boulerice for six minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank our experts for joining us today.

Professor Dawson, I'd like to start with you.

You talked about newly opened sea routes in the Arctic, the melting ice caps and climate change, but also the geopolitical consequences. Let's put a name to it, Russia, which planted its flag on the ocean floor at the North Pole in 2007.

How do you perceive what Vladimir Putin's regime did, unilaterally claiming some sort of sovereignty over an entire zone of our planet that's quite huge?

[Dr. Jackie Dawson]

That was one of many gestures—the most overt, absolutely.

I'm a climate change expert with interests in geopolitics because these things are intertwined. I'm not a security or political scientist, but I think it's quite clear that there are interests in the Arctic.

There are resources in the Arctic that we don't even know exist yet. We've been looking for uranium, diamonds, oil and gas, historically. With the movement toward EVs and other things, we're going to be looking for nickel, cobalt and others, and we haven't even.... We probably know some of it.

It doesn't surprise me at all that this is happening, and I anticipate it will continue to happen. The subsurface is what concerns me the most. We have satellites. We have some ability to understand and monitor the top, but as for what's going on underneath, I'm not sure.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

That could unfortunately lead to conflicts in the future.

You put a lot of emphasis on the increase in vessel traffic and the shipping lanes that will open up. It could be a good thing, but it could also be problematic or dangerous.

Do you think the federal government is prepared for this significant increase in shipping through these newly opened lanes?

[Dr. Jackie Dawson]

No, I don't.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

You quite simply don't think so. Thank you.

What, then, should the federal government be doing to prepare for this?

[Dr. Jackie Dawson]

Well, first of all, it's taken us 18 years to build a new icebreaker. I think we have six icebreakers—five, really—but they're all at end-of-life. We are building offshore patrol vessels. They aren't necessarily going to be useful in the high seas. They're definitely useful in the nearshore, which they're designed for. I think we're extremely slow to be building ships.

One thing that's extremely positive, though, is Davie shipbuilding now owns a shipyard in Finland, which I think will help us get around some of the challenges we've had in building ships. We can't build ships in China, which can build them cheaper and faster. I understand why we don't do that. Now I'm hoping we can speed this process up, but we are not ready right now.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Needs haven't been addressed in the past 15 years when it comes to shipping. I've been here for 13 years, and this keeps coming up.

Professor Voyer, you talked about the impact the melting ice caps will have on rising sea levels. This phenomenon is going to affect everyone because the oceans flow around the planet, which is very small, as you said. It could be an issue for Holland or Bangladesh, but a lot of the world's cities were built right next to the oceans. That means it could become a bit of a problem for New York, London and many places around the world.

I want to refer back to the beginning of your presentation. As you said, you're a chemist and you specialize in natural products in the north. Climate change is having an impact on flora and fauna. Natural products have to come from somewhere. Are some natural products in the north at risk? What changes in the vegetation are having an impact that you're seeing?

[Dr. Normand Voyer]

That's a great question.

Shoreline erosion is also impacting towns as small as Tuktoyaktuk. It's critical for the people who live there.

When we talk about climate change, we often talk about warming, but also about losing biodiversity. However, every time we lose biodiversity, we lose chemodiversity. Plants contain natural substances that have extraordinary properties.

Forty per cent of the drugs in our medicine cabinets come from plants. With global warming, plants are adapting their metabolism. Some will go extinct. For example, we may lose the first medication developed to treat Alzheimer's disease.

We've shown in our research that a small microscopic fungus in Iqaluit Bay or Frobisher Bay, if you will, has the ability to neutralize malaria in the south.

We were especially interested in the Whapmagoostui and Kuujjuarapik communities, which use a plant called Labrador tea for their traditional medical needs. This plant is abundantly used. The problem is, in the past few years, members of these communities have noted that this traditional herbal tea has side effects. So they asked us if we could help them understand that. With warming, the plant has a summer cycle in its metabolism that produces different substances at different times. One of those substances is toxic. So the goal is to determine the best time to harvest the plant so that the therapeutic effects are at their peak and the side effects are minimized. This is an extremely meaningful factor caused by global warming that is being forgotten.

When we talk about biodiversity—

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you so much, Dr. Voyer. That was a little over our time. It was very interesting.

Now we will start our second round of questioning with MP Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The topic of this study, as you folks well know since you got the invitation, is science and research in Canada's Arctic in relation to climate change. Probably a good place to start is to ask what happened hundreds of thousands of years ago and try to educate ourselves on what happened back when the ice shelf was lost.

Jackie Dawson, for the benefit of us all, can you tell us what happened, the best guess, that many years ago?