Science and Research Committee on March 31st, 2022

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Good, I want to get you all on the record.

Dr. Rafuse.

[Dr. Victor Rafuse]

I'm on the record as saying yes.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Dr. Smith.

[Dr. Nigel Smith]

I have to agree with the previous two speakers. Yes, more funding is always good.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Excellent.

The next one is for Dr. McIsaac.

I'm very interested in your research on newcomers. What can we leverage from your research for the Ukrainian immigrants who we're now bringing to the country?

[Dr. Jessie-Lee McIsaac]

What an important question.

In our research, we've really tried to leverage the first-hand voices of families. I think it's listening to experiences, understanding their needs and building supports that are relevant and meaningful.

Science can help us do that. Science can be social sciences. It can be building programs and policies that support Canadians. That's a really important part of the work that I do.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

If you want to submit any other recommendations or leverage your work through the committee, I would invite you to do that. That would be great.

I have a final question on the aging brain. One in six are seniors in the country. It's going to be one in four in less than five years.

Dr. Rafuse, what do we need to do there?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Give a short answer, please.

[Dr. Victor Rafuse]

Thank you for the question.

If I had another hour, I could probably adequately address it. In the short term, we need to develop a strategy.

The strategy should be based on the aging brain, not based on specific diseases. One of the failures of neuroscience research is that it's all based on Alzheimer's versus Parkinson's versus ALS—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Dr. Rafuse, I'm sorry to do this. You were just getting wound up to talk about this really important area.

Thank you, Ms. Gladu.

With that, we will go to Mr. McKinnon for five minutes.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to pick on Dr. Smith because my riding is Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam. We're kind of neighbours.

As was the case with Ms. Gladu, I've toured TRIUMF in recent years as well. I would underscore your recommendation that the committee take the opportunity, if it can, to have that tour.

As Mr. Cannings mentioned, you've picked up a great deal of the slack that came from shutting down the NRU reactor in Chalk River.

I'm wondering what kind of commercialization is available. From all the research and technologies you guys have developed, are you able to leverage that into support for your organization for the ongoing maintenance, development and evolution of research?

[Dr. Nigel Smith]

Thank you for the question.

For commercialization, we actually have a separate arm of TRIUMF called TRIUMF Innovations. The intent of TRIUMF Innovations is to look into TRIUMF and identify any IP that can be spun out or commercialized in work with both our researchers and external groups to try to develop new approaches or techniques that can be put to market.

Medical isotopes are certainly one area in which that's very active at the moment. We are beginning to develop commercialization links with several groups, but we do have a group actually located in TRIUMF, called BWXT, which runs a suite of cyclotrons that are used for isotope development. We are basically generating income either from royalties or from some of the operational aspects as BWXT creates these isotopes and they go as far abroad as UBC and Australia, so there's a very broad set of destinations for those products.

I would note that somewhere between 10% and 15% of the commercialization income—we have about a $90-million to $100-million operational cost per year—is derived from those commercial operations. But we would certainly note that commercialization is just one of the benefits that we can create. The societal benefit from being able to create these isotopes and hopefully cure cancers and certainly use them for diagnostics is one of the big societal benefits that we can introduce. So there is not just the commercialization and the income creation but also the impact of the technologies and the techniques that are being developed here.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I know that you, as a major big science institution, attract a great number of highly qualified people from all over the world. I am wondering if you could speak to us a bit about what brings them, what keeps them here, and what attracts them.

[Dr. Nigel Smith]

That's a great question for somebody who came from the U.K. to Canada in 2009. I actually came here to run SNOLAB, which is a deep underground facility in northern Ontario. I was so enamoured with the Canadian system, the opportunities here, that I am now a joint Canadian-U.K. citizen.

As an illustration that the Canadian research ecosystem is really attractive, there are areas in which Canada excels, and by doing that it certainly does attract people from all over the world.

I would note, as another example of the benefits of the major research facilities and the ability to use them as training opportunities, that when people leave TRIUMF they are often going to very top positions in other labs around the world. By attracting people to Canada and training them, we are not only able to keep them here but also to ensure that we are adding value to the ecosystem.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I think that's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. McKinnon. That's very gracious of you.

Dear colleagues, we've come to the end and I want to thank all of you. We thank you for coming, and we thank you for your work.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Madam Chair, on a point of order, I'd just note that our Bloc and NDP colleagues tend to get a little bit shortchanged. Given that it's Mr. Cannings' birthday, I wonder if we can give them a couple of minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you.

At the will of the committee, I think we could do two and a half minutes to each, but it would be at the will of the committee and since it's Mr. Cannings' birthday.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Did you say that I should go first because it's my birthday?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Was there agreement, Mr. Clerk?

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I don't know. People are nodding.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

There is agreement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Okay. That's wonderful.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Leif-Erik Aune]

Yes.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.