Evidence of meeting #90 for Science and Research in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was north.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all of the witnesses for your testimony today. Having said that, I'm getting more and more depressed from what I'm hearing. Certainly, you have outlined many of the challenges and problems.
Perhaps I will start with you, Dr. Vincent.
You talked about research priorities and also hinted at solutions. Could you give us some concrete examples of where a problem was observed, and where we now have some success in addressing that particular situation?
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
Thank you very much for that question.
I think we should try to avoid depression. We should take a leaf out of the indigenous book. When you talk to northern communities, they are very positive. They explain that they have been through extraordinary changes in the last 200 years and have an incredible resilience. We can learn from them.
I think there are many examples where we have solutions. In my own centre, the Centre for Northern Studies.... You talked earlier in the proceedings with Professor Michel Allard. He started with some very basic research using medical technologies to examine soil and permafrost. It was very theoretical, working in remote areas—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
I'm sorry. I'm hitting pause because it looks like the bells are ringing.
Do I have the committee's consent to continue during the ringing of the bells?
Liberal
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
I'm very good at multi-tasking. Thank you very much.
The example I had was of my colleague Michel Allard applying CT scans to permafrost. That was very theoretical. Then, the mayor of Salluit came to him and said, “We have a terrible problem up in the north of Quebec. The land is falling apart. We have had to move 20 of our buildings. We may have to move the entire town of Salluit. Well, we can't afford to do that.” Of course, culturally, that would be a terrible thing to do. Also, it would break the Bank of Canada to move all Inuit communities.
He worked with the CT technique to examine ice within the permafrost. He worked very closely with the Inuit community to identify traditional lands that would be of cultural interest for further development. They developed a risk map for future climate change such that the community can now build for the future knowing that, in the decades ahead, they are on the most stable ground in that particular area.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you so much.
I'll turn to Dr. Kutz.
You've told us about the muskox population disappearing due to Arctic warming. What else have you come up with, other than observation, in terms of ensuring that food supply going forward? Are there solutions that you've come up with?
Professor and Tier I Canada Research Chair in Arctic One Health, As an Individual
Thank you.
I would echo Warwick's comments about the Inuit being so very resilient and able to switch from species to species, depending on the season, etc. However, they are in a food security crisis nowadays because multiple species are declining.
Some of the ways we've been working toward solutions.... One piece is just knowledge. If people understand what to look for in animals and if the meat is safe, there will be far less wastage.
Right now, communities are hearing about mad cow disease and bird flu. This creates a lot of uncertainty about their food source and distrust in it, which can lead to them going to the grocery store instead. As we learn more about what's in the species and whether or not there is a risk for people to consume it, that can increase their confidence in country foods.
The other piece of what we're doing is very much technologically driven, and that is looking at emerging infectious diseases in the Arctic and being able to provide rapid tests, not unlike a COVID test, for food safety.
At this point in time, when people find something unusual, it's a long trip for that sample to get down to a lab in the south and for an answer to come back to that community, but if we can develop.... We have the molecular technologies to do these things. When we develop these tests, we can then provide a rapid response to people and support them in their food choices. That alone will help prevent meat wastage and unnecessary harvests, etc.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
That's quite reassuring. Thank you so much for that.
We've heard about the issue of increased shipping through the Arctic. I wonder, again, how people are researching that.
What, specifically, are the problems related to the human population within the Arctic due to the increased shipping that is occurring?
Perhaps Dr. Vincent could start.
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
Actually, I've had the pleasure of working with an international lawyer on that question related to Arctic shipping in Canada. There is a long list of issues to consider.
Of course, the greatest concern is oil spills. Given the danger of uncharted territory in many parts of the Arctic.... We have very poor charts and bathymetric charts in many areas. The ice is changing very rapidly. It's a lot less predictable than it was in the past. We need to understand more about what happens if there is an oil spill. How quickly will that degrade and break down?
There's research going on, including with local Inuit communities, to try to understand response and recovery times of the ecosystem to oil spills. The results to date indicate that there will be a very persistent effect of any spill of that sort.
However, there are other questions that relate to, for example, underwater noise in shipping. The Arctic Ocean is a very quiet place because of that ice cap—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Valerie Bradford
That's our time. You could expand on that in a written answer, if you choose to.
Thank you very much.
We'll now turn to MP Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I welcome the witnesses who are here with us for the second hour of our study.
My first question is for Mr. Vincent.
It’s a pleasure to welcome you here at committee. I congratulate you on your long career as a professor emeritus. You have a pretty good résumé. You are the founder of ArcticNet. You also acted as the director of the Centre for Northern Studies at Laval University for eight years. I had the opportunity and privilege to visit; it’s fascinating.
As I just said, you were one of ArcticNet’s founders. Recently, the federal government publicly confirmed approximately $32 million of funding, which it had already announced in December 2023. However, this is a decrease in funding. Yet, scientific research is a priority for the government.
My question is simple: If scientific research is a priority, why reduce funding for ArcticNet and northern research?
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
Thank you very much for the question, sir.
I don't have the exact figures for overall funding, but I can say that funding levels are low relative to other countries. For example, in the report that Professor Kutz referred to, “Northern Research Leadership and Equity”, it's shown on page 69 that Canada's funding for Arctic research is less than 50% of that in Norway. Canada's funding for Arctic research is less than 20% of that in the United States. Only 1% of NSERC funding is given to Arctic research.
Its conclusion is that the data demonstrates that Canada is not a global leader in Arctic and northern research investment.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Mr. Vincent, I’ll come back to the government’s recent public announcement. It was quite recent, specifically on May 26.
Mr. Champagne, the Minister for Innovation, Science and Industry, said that Canada has everything to become a world leader. He said that, to this end, Canada has a ship for conducting research, the Amundsen. However, we know this ship is coming to the end of its useful life. Mr. Champagne also talked about the Institut nordique du Quebec established at Laval University. He said these elements could help us become a global centre for research on the Canadian north.
Based on your expertise, how does one become a global centre for research on the Canadian north while reducing research investments?
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
I think you're correct. The minister is correct in that there are some strong elements in Canada, but we need to federate them. We need to bring them together. The Amundsen is a case in point. That's a beautiful ship. I just passed it in Quebec City before leaving. It's heading up to the Lincoln Sea again this year. It's in good shape but it's 45 years old. A typical lifetime for a ship is between 30 and 50 years.
The polar continental shelf program has been in a crisis situation off and on over the 30 years that I've been obtaining support, including this year. It propelled 100 of us to write to the Minister of Natural Resources in distress about the way in which our programs may be coming to a halt as a consequence of a lack of continuity of funding of that critically important agency, and yet at the same time we see other nations scaling up in a large way.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Professor Vincent, I have a very important question to ask you. I’m curious to know which language is used to conduct scientific research in the Arctic and the north.
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
It's a very good question. It's a mixture. Typically, the exchanges with Inuit or first nations are with translators. I wish I spoke Inuktitut. In northern Quebec, in Nunavik, many of the exchanges are in French. In much of the rest of Canada, it is in English. Of course, the international literature tends to be in English. However, in communicating, when we apply for science licences in the north, we have to apply in Inuktitut and provide our reports in Inuktitut.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
I’m curious about that, because in his announcement at Laval University, Minister Champagne said the money would also lead to more research in French, which is in decline in Canada. “Research in the Arctic, in the North, will happen in French. Obviously, that’s important to me as a francophone. The decline we are seeing … is not just a Canadian issue,” he said.
Is the minister right to say that funding the ArcticNet network will promote French-language science in the Arctic and the north?
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
I think French is a very important part of working in the north. We hear French commonly in the north when speaking to colleagues. My team is a francophone team that I take up to Ellesmere Island. We have our nine stations where the common language within the station would be French. Working with our communities, we would try to make an effort to make sure there were translators along to talk to them in the language of their choice.
Bloc
Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
In the lab, things happen in French. However, in which language are scientific articles and research results published?
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
It depends. The scientific publications at an international level are in English, but we have a responsibility as scientists to bring back that information and transmit it to our students and to communities in the language that is most appropriate. At our community science centre, for example, at Whapmagoostui-Kuujjuarapik, everything there is in French, English, Inuktitut and Cree. Respect for language is so important.
Bloc
Professor, Centre for Northern Studies (CEN), Université Laval, As an Individual
Thank you very much.
Liberal
NDP
Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC
Thank you to all three witnesses for being here today.
I'll start with you, Dr. Murray, to first of all thank the Arctic Institute for all your work and support you've provided scientists over the years. I used your station at Kluane probably 10 times to teach a field ecology course. I know a lot of people who've gone through that station. We've had two of them as witnesses already on this study.
I'm just wondering about that infrastructure available to researchers across the Arctic. You're in Cambridge Bay right now, where POLAR is headquartered at CHARS. How can we best coordinate the infrastructure supports for research across the Arctic? It's such a huge place.