Science and Research Committee on June 4th, 2024

[Dr. Maribeth Murray]

Yes. It is true. We do have a lot of research infrastructure. A lot of it is in dire need of refurbishment and upgrading.

I would say that we need coordination across the country. To go back to Professor Vincent's comments, if we had a national science strategy, it would allow us to think carefully and strategically about where resources need to be put with respect to different infrastructures. It would allow us also to make difficult decisions about which infrastructures might need to be retired because they're past their use-life—to the point about the Amundsen and the need to soon replace that vessel.

I think a national plan that actually sets out our priorities would help us to determine where money needs to go infrastructure, but there is also a need for coordination. We do have the Canadian Network of Northern Research Operators, which is still really in its infancy but can serve as an entity to bring the different research infrastructure operators together to work on some common planning so that we have common training protocols, we have the ability to move scientists from one facility to another and we have pathways for opening up those facilities to indigenous organizations and community researchers.

The short version of all of that is really that we have a mechanism for coordination. It needs some resourcing, and we need a plan with an implementation strategy for how those resources can be distributed to best support the infrastructures that already exist and the new ones we may need going forward.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Now I'm going to turn to you, Dr. Vincent, because you mentioned, as have several of our witnesses, the polar shelf. The Arctic is a big place. The logistics of getting around are critical to researchers and would break every budget in any researcher's world if they were left to their own devices.

I remember my brother phoning me in 2018 and saying, “You've got to get the polar shelf properly funded: It hasn't had an uplift of funding in 20 years.” Shortly after that, it seemed that something was done, but you say that it's in dire need of help now.

If you had one recommendation for this committee about the polar shelf, could you perhaps say what that would be? What does it need now to make sure that it's functional now and into the future?

[Dr. Warwick Vincent]

Thank you for that question.

I agree with everything you have said. The polar shelf program is really a linchpin for operations in the Canadian north by Canadians. It's also a front that we've put out to the rest of the world in terms of our ability to access these vast territories of Canada, and the expertise is extraordinary. My recommendation would be a commitment to continuity.

What is so difficult as a scientist is not knowing from one year to another whether, yes, you have a program—you can send your students, you can work with those Inuit partners—or not. You don't know until March or April and the season is coming up within a month or two months, and yet the expenditure is of the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is, as they say, not a good way to run a railroad. We really need a more professional national focus that would be part and parcel of a national strategy.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

How much time is left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

You have a minute and a half.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay. I'll go to Dr. Kutz.

I'm really interested and curious about how climate change drives these new and emerging wildlife epidemics you mentioned. I've heard that brucellosis has been found in muskox, but I was just reading your information and see that there's a bacteria called “erysipelothrix”.

I'm just wondering how these bacteria get to these Arctic islands to then cause such havoc with wildlife populations. Maybe lemmings are carrying them. I'm just wondering about the physical nature of these epidemics: how they work and how climate change is affecting that.

[Dr. Susan Kutz]

Thank you for that.

That is also a whole book, but this is where a lot of the basic science is so important. Where has this come from? How has it arrived? Why is it being so devastating?

There are a number of theories. One is long-range transportation.

We have migratory waterfowl populations that are huge in the Arctic—and increasing—and that is a great avenue for globalization of pathogens, for bringing them back and forth from south to north, which also means that things that happen in the north can also be transported back. Erysipelothrix, the actual bacteria that is killing muskox, is a generalist, so it can infect everything—all species—including fish, birds and people.

That is one mechanism, and that is where we start to use the molecular methods to try to understand that better.

The other mechanism—

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you. We're a bit over time, so if you want to expand on that and send a written response, that would be terrific.

We'll now start our second round with MP Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll follow up on Mr. Canning's question to Ms. Kutz in regard to the muskox. Are the surviving or remaining muskox showing resistance to the bacteria?

[Dr. Susan Kutz]

Unfortunately, from what we know, we're not seeing that.

We saw major epidemics and large numbers of dead animals. We don't see as many dead animals now, but that's because there are fewer animals out there. Just last year up on Ellesmere, we continued to find more animals that had died from this.

The musk oxen have very low genetic diversity already, which means they have very low capacity to deal with new pathogens.

On the Arctic islands at this point, we don't see much more resistance developing.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Again, not to go too far on this, but is there a way, similar to what's done in areas down where I am with raccoons and rabies or other things, to drop the medication to the muskox to help them fight this bacteria, or is that too far-out thinking?

[Dr. Susan Kutz]

People ask about vaccines all the time. We have vaccines for pigs, but they need to be vaccinated every six months, so that's clearly not feasible for a wild population.

Some of the things we're thinking about have to do with their underlying resistance. Disease doesn't act alone. It depends on other stressors on the animals, so we try to reduce other stressors like disturbance and boost minerals, some of the trace elements that help them to become resistant to some of these things.

There is greater genetic diversity in the mainland musk oxen, so there may be some technologies there where we can support these other animals.

Then there are some other more advanced molecular methods that could be considered coming down the pipeline, but that would require considerable community discussions and input.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Vincent, at the beginning I was thinking that there's just this big centralized command in the Arctic, and this is where it all heads out, but, as more and more guests appear and more and more briefs are sent in, I see that there is a tremendous number of groups that are involved in research in one way or another in the Arctic.

How many are there, in your experience or knowledge? How many are operating up there?

[Dr. Warwick Vincent]

I don't think I have an accurate estimate of how many are operating. We know that it's in the order of 40 different research stations in the north. They vary in their level of activity, from the High Arctic Research Station, which has a very large number of scientists working out of, to very small stations such as Ward Hunt Island station. Typically that has between five and 15 people working at it over the course of a season.

It's in the order of hundreds.

Of course, in addition to the terrestrial side, there are people working on the sea through the Amundsen, through the Louis St-Laurent, and through other agencies and activities.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Out of all these organizations, my guess is that all the research, findings and data do not end up in a centralized location where it can be disseminated and used to look backwards and forwards.

Is that true, or am I wrong there?

[Dr. Warwick Vincent]

I think that's partially correct because it is so disparate, and it comes in from so many different sources.

ArcticNet has really tried to address that, by bringing together, in a multidisciplinary way, Inuit and first nations communities in an opportunity for the different players in the north to share their findings at the Arctic science conference that is held each year.

That is one mechanism whereby there can be some sharing. There are also mechanisms at international levels. Dr. Burgess mentioned the International Arctic Science Committee that Canada sends delegates to each year. That's a way in which there can be a sharing of ideas, but also a sharing of priorities and, right at the moment, this international community is identifying its key priorities for ongoing collaborative international research in the Arctic.

This makes it a timely opportunity to develop a national strategy that will allow us to mesh with some of those international priorities, most of which are also priorities for Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

Thank you. That's our time.

We'll now turn to MP Diab for five minutes.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Let me just start off with thanking the witnesses for coming today. It's been an eye-opener listening to the witnesses we've had so far in this study of science and research in Canada's Arctic. Certainly, as a member of Parliament, I was not privy to all of that information and expertise.

Dr. Kutz, let me ask you a question and give you a bit of an opportunity with the time I have. You talked a lot about the wildlife as it affects human health and, of course, the emerging infectious diseases. Many of us don't do this for a living, nor do we study it, or whatever.

Is there anything else you want to impart to the committee today? I know you started with your opening remarks and, quite honestly, you had so much information that I felt you were trying to go through it quickly so that you could give all of it to us. Are there any nuggets you want to leave with us?

[Dr. Susan Kutz]

Wow. I suppose the value of wildlife to indigenous communities is so very high, and there are so many competing interests in the north that are or can be detrimental to wildlife, wildlife populations and that way of life.

I mentioned near the end of my comments that southern solutions aren't necessarily the right solutions and that we need to work with northerners to develop those solutions. Putting in more infrastructure, a road, can have devastating consequences for wildlife, not just in affecting their movement but also in increasing stressors and influencing their susceptibility to new diseases and other things. While it seems like a logical answer, I think any of these interventions are really important to discuss with northerners so they can understand that.

I also think that when it comes to emerging infectious diseases, the Arctic is very susceptible. We are seeing unprecedented warming rates. Lots of diseases are influenced by temperature. We've seen the range expansion of some of the parasites that are up there expanding into the high Arctic islands. We're seeing new species of animals that are bringing with them pathogens.

Therefore, those very direct effects of climate change are dramatically altering the communities. It's really quite important to understand those processes. It's changing—

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Murray, you talked a lot about research infrastructure coordination across the country, where resources are needed so that we can decide where best to use them. I have a question for you in this regard. Does the organization do a lot on the international level? Do you find that coordination on that level is necessary, helpful and sufficient? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Particularly in the first panel, we heard a lot from Mr. Burgess from the Natural Environment Research Council Arctic Office. Quite frankly, he called Canada “world leading” and “world class” in Arctic science. I'm just trying to understand that, coupled with some of the other testimony we've heard.

[Dr. Maribeth Murray]

To the first part of your question about coordination on the international level, there are a number of long-running initiatives that Canadian scientists and research infrastructure participants are members of.

One is the Interact network, which is the International Network for Terrestrial Stations. There are well over 100 stations that are part of that, including quite a few from Canada, such as the station that I'm responsible for at Kluane, and the CEN stations that Warwick mentioned.

We are part of that network, and in that context we work with our international partners to do things like develop common protocols for environmental monitoring, and share data and information across that network. Ship-based coordination is a little different. It tends to happen with the institutions that own the vessels and the scientists who have those partnerships.

We don't, as I mentioned earlier, have a strategic plan for how we want to engage. Those things have tended to happen either at the level of the individual scientists, groups or consortiums of researchers or, as Henry Burgess talked about, through one government agency to another government agency internationally. We have an ongoing program—

[The Chair, Liberal, Valerie Bradford]

That's our time. Thank you so much.

Now we will turn to MP Blanchette-Joncas for two and a half minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I’ll continue with Mr. Vincent.

Mr. Vincent, given your expertise, I’m sure you know that conducting research in the Arctic requires tools. Specifically, one needs a boat, because there’s water up there.

Laval University is working with the Amundsen Science organization, owned by the federal government. They both act as comanagers or coleaders in order to conduct research. According to scientists, the Amundsen icebreaker is coming to the end of its useful life. We are waiting for confirmation from the government as part of the National Shipbuilding Strategy, but we have no answer or very little confirmation regarding the fleet’s renewal.

I’d like to hear your opinion on the need for a boat dedicated specifically to research in the Arctic.

[Dr. Warwick Vincent]

I think this is absolutely critical. Canada has the longest coastline in the world, and 70% of that coastline is in the north; in fact, two-thirds of it is in Nunavut. The Inuit are intimately related to the sea. They consider themselves part of the marine ecosystem. We really need to understand that marine environment, and that marine environment is changing very rapidly. It's so critically important for indigenous communities. It is important for global circulation processes. It is important for the transfer of pollutants from one side of the world to another.

We see other nations scaling up enormously. Germany will be launching its replacement for its research icebreaker—which is actually younger than the Amundsen—in two years' time. China will be launching its third research icebreaker next year, and its fourth one is already under construction. North Korea has committed $200 million to a new icebreaker. We're seeing a huge ramping up. We need to be on the front line. We don't want to be just there taking information from others. We need to be on the front line obtaining that information for Canadian waters.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Indeed, we note that even non-Arctic countries, or those who do not need to conduct research in polar regions, have ships. You did in fact mention it.

I’d quickly like to hear what you have to say about the need for a national coordination strategy on northern and Arctic research.