Science and Research Committee on June 1st, 2026

[David Perry]

I would.

We've done some of that, but the thing we've lacked is a mechanism to then buy the solution. You've gone and had that discussion. We've not had a clearly constructed system to go from that to actually getting it into the hands of our soldiers, aviators or sailors.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I agree.

At what point do you think our inability to procure technologies fast enough becomes a national security issue, not just a procurement problem?

[David Perry]

I think it's one right now.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Absolutely.

So Canadians are aware, what does this liability look like for Canada, practically speaking?

[David Perry]

What it means is that we're overly reliant on other people's technology, for one. It means we're not equipping and modernizing as quickly as we should be. It means we've historically under-delivered on the innovation and economic growth potential we could otherwise be achieving through Canadian innovators, small Canadian companies and the wider research and development ecosystem in Canada.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Would you agree, as well, that IP retention is a problem—that we're innovating in Canada but not retaining the IP? Therefore, we don't own the technology. We buy it back at retail. Is that a piece of what's happening here?

[David Perry]

The whole intellectual property ecosystem is complicated. I'm not an expert in this particular area, other than I think there are a number of aspects.

We really have to be a bit more specific and focus on what elements of that current ecosystem we find lacking. We have different circumstances. Can we get it from abroad or have some of it go overseas? Is it about control or about maintaining access? I think more definition around what we specifically want to see through a greater focus on intellectual property is warranted.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Dr. da Mota, would you like to comment on IP? You mentioned it in your speech.

[Matthew da Mota]

I would agree with Dr. Perry, first off, that we have to be specific about what we're talking about. There are a lot of different areas where we have IP leak.

There's a fundamental layer where technology that's developed in fundamental science never goes to a tech transfer office. It never becomes commercialized, so those ideas just go out into the world. To some extent, we want to support open science where it's appropriate, but I think we want to have some more controls and make sure that we channel these into the right avenues so that we can benefit as much as possible and reuse IP as much as possible in Canada.

Then, when we're talking about IP that is commercialized and then goes out into the market, I think we lose it in a number of different ways, including companies being bought up at small stages because they don't have capital to grow and stay in Canada. That's a partnership issue, and it's a capital issue.

Again, I agree with Dr. Perry about the aversion to risk. I think not only embracing risk but also trying to de-risk certain elements that don't need to be high risk would be important for that. A more comprehensive approach to IP retention, in general, is extremely important.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much.

I want to thank you for coming. I only have a couple of seconds left, and I fully align with what both of you are saying. I hope to see this in the committee report and have some adoption happen through the current government.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tony Baldinelli]

With that, we're going to MP Rana.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your time.

Mr. Blais, the defence industrial strategy is committing $334.5 million to Canada's quantum ecosystem, including $92 million for the Canadian quantum champions program. Is that investment at the scale and speed needed to keep Canada competitive in quantum for national security purposes?

[Alexandre Blais]

I think this is a great start. I think the quantum champions program was absolutely necessary.

There was both a danger and an opportunity. There was a danger of losing these four companies to the U.S.—that was a real threat. There's also the opportunity of building something great with these companies.

However, at the moment, what I can say is that we have four quantum hubs in Canada. They have been supported by federal grants. These grants have now run out, and we are at risk of losing the 10 years of ecosystem we have created if there are no further investments in the national hubs that we have in quantum.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Quantum technologies are among Canada's most sensitive research areas and are among the most globally contested for research partnerships. How do you balance the need to work with international partners against the security obligations that come with research that could have defence applications as well?

[Alexandre Blais]

It's important to recognize that, when it comes to quantum research, the technology readiness levels, TRLs, are low. The TRLs can be very high. A lot of basic research still needs to be done, a lot of technological bottlenecks still need to be worked out. That's a case where partnership-based research with allies should be prioritized.

We're not at the point of needing to keep that basic research within our own borders. We actually still need to be open to international partnerships. When companies get involved, it's another story, obviously. As far as university research is concerned, collaboration is the right approach.

[Wendy Therrien, Associate Vice-President of Government Relations, Université de Sherbrooke]

I will just add that one thing we try to do at the Université de Sherbrooke is to really make sure that we have a clear line of sight, whether we're doing fundamental research or doing research with industrial partners that do need to be more protected. Depending on where we are on a particular research project, we put the right kinds of protections in place to make sure that industrial-supported research is protected and that we know whom we are working with.

We have an ethics committee that does review our more sensitive research to make sure that the mechanisms are in place to do what we need to do and to protect IP, which goes to the point that you made earlier.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I would love to share my time with my colleague, MP Brière.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you to my colleague for sharing his time.

Welcome to all of our witnesses.

Mr. Blais, you rightly pointed out that the best investment we can make is in talent. You said it was important not to focus solely on basic and applied research, but to also bridge the gap between research and companies.

The ecosystem in Sherbrooke is crucially important. How, then, can the government leverage it to maximize the benefits of Canada's defence industrial strategy, especially from a dual-use standpoint?

[Alexandre Blais]

Thank you for your question.

The Quantum Institute at Université de Sherbrooke is certainly part of the ecosystem, which includes more than 15 companies and over 200 jobs in quantum technology in Sherbrooke.

I think it's imperative to keep supporting that ecosystem. As I said earlier, we were fortunate to receive support through the Canada first research excellence fund. Although the funding has ended, it's what made the Quantum Institute possible.

The institutes that benefited from the funding these past 10 or so years built up capacity that we could lose. As far as I'm concerned, funding eastern Canada's four quantum research hubs is paramount in order to achieve the goal.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

The ecosystem in Sherbrooke is the envy of everyone. It has a lot of people talking, especially in the quantum science community.

What is Sherbrooke's contribution to this whole negotiation or development of the defence industrial strategy?

[Wendy Therrien]

We applied to be one of the DISHs. One thing we did that was very unique was that we brought together all the partners from our ecosystem—everyone from the CEGEPs to the universities to the applieds—and we all worked together. In C2MI we all worked together to put our strengths on the table. That goes from fundamental research all the way to applied and all the way to putting it in the market.

When you look at a defence application, what you want to be able to do is go deep and understand a problem, and then to quickly—that's what we're able to do in Sherbrooke, which is what makes us unique—put that into the market. I think that's what the defence industrial strategy is looking for: understand a problem, put it into the market and do so quickly. We have that. It's unique, but it could be replicated across the country.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Tony Baldinelli]

Thank you. That is time.

We will now go to MP Blanchette-Joncas.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon to the witnesses with us for the second panel.

Mr. Blais, can you give us examples of actual applications that resulted from research done in Sherbrooke, specifically in the areas of national security, cybersecurity, secure communications or regional development?

[Alexandre Blais]

Thank you for your question.

I can give you a few examples.

The first is SBQuantum, a company that emerged from the Quantum Institute. A student at the institute started the company about 10 years ago. It develops quantum sensor technology that can measure the earth's magnetic field with much greater precision.

About a month ago, in conjunction with NASA and SpaceX, the company launched its sensor technology into low earth orbit to provide precise measurements of the earth's magnetic field. It was part of the U.S. National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency's MagQuest program.

Now in orbit, the satellite will help to measure earth's magnetic field. The technology is particularly helpful for navigation in a context where GPS navigation isn't available, so it has a highly strategic application. It's a very clear and real illustration of how basic research can translate into a beneficial defence application.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

That's fantastic.

Obviously, there are challenges in the field of quantum science, and you talked about that.

Would you say the biggest challenge in the field right now is scientific discovery, or is it actually the retention of the talent, intellectual property and businesses that emerge from the field?