Science and Research Committee on Oct. 6th, 2025

[Sameeh Salama]

In your riding, we discovered PiP-Tazo in 1986, a drug that's sold worldwide and saves millions of lives every year.

There is no lack of innovation. Alberta is a leader when it comes to AMR research. We have tapped into some federal funding, but what you need to understand is that the times have changed. Programs like the industrial research assistance program, IRAP, dictate that companies that qualify for that really need to continue to increase the number of staff, because IRAP basically pays about 80% of the funding for new staff.

For companies like us, human resources are a big issue. In order for us to continue to increase staff and carry the overhead that this brings into the company is an issue. We use different models of funding in order for us to keep the lights on, but the requirement by IRAP is an issue. We raised that with IRAP; there have to be other ways to award companies that would not restrict them. That was one of the issues.

Other programs that exist in Canada are really tailored for people who have a product demonstration. This means that we have to have taken the drug into clinical trials in order for us to continue, which leaves about maybe a gap of seven or eight years from the time our company would take the product until it reaches clinical trials. That gap now is unfunded. This is the period that we're talking about. We need to bridge that gap from a product coming out of academic research to it reaching clinical trials. Once I'm in clinical trials, I have proof of concept in humans and I'm almost closer to the end, but that gap between proof of concept in animals to proof of concept in humans right now is...not existing.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

You have tried taking funding from the federal government, but the level that you want has not happened yet. Do you see that there is a lot of improvement needed?

[Sameeh Salama]

I think IRAP is due for a review right now, and I'm calling for that to be done in consultation with companies, in order for us to take advantage of them.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

If you have to compare Canada with its counterpart, the United States, in regard to designing and approving new and alternative drugs, what kinds of regulatory holdbacks do you face here in Canada as drug developers?

[Sameeh Salama]

From an approval process?

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

Yes.

[Sameeh Salama]

Definitely the red tape that exists in the approval of drugs, especially in the antibiotic space, is really a hurdle right now, and that needs to be reviewed. That conversation at the federal, provincial and territorial level in terms of drug approval needs to be reviewed as well.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

Is it fair to say, because of that red tape, that also just in pharmaceutical development lots of companies are choosing to go to other jurisdictions, including the United States?

[Sameeh Salama]

I mentioned there were two reasons. Yes, the first one I mentioned was the time it takes for that approval process.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

Can you also expand, in about 10 seconds, on how you want the time that is eaten up until the patent is introduced to the industry addressed? You said that phase of the process takes about 10 years before it goes into the market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, MP Mahal, but your time is up. Perhaps it would be good to get a written response from the witness to this question.

[Jagsharan Singh Mahal, Conservative, Edmonton Southeast, AB]

Yes, I would like that, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Now we will to MP Rana, for five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much to all the witnesses for spending time with us this morning.

Dr. Salama, as we are aware, in July 2024, Canada and the European Commission signed an agreement that gives Canadian organizations greater access to Horizon Europe, the European Union's main research and innovation funding program. This means that Canadian groups can now take part in research projects that address major global issues, including health.

Do you think Canada is doing enough to collaborate with the international partners on AMR?

[Sameeh Salama]

I'm actually not familiar with this program, so I cannot comment on that.

The only comment I can have is in regard to the GARDP program, which is a partnership among several countries, including European countries as well as Canada.

The funding mechanism that exists between GARDP and Canada has to go through the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, which is great. That offers an opportunity for academic researchers, but it does not offer the opportunity for industry. The funding that comes through GARDP goes through CIHR. Companies are not able to apply for funding through CIHR.

That partnership here, I think, is also in need of a review to really see who can benefit from that. Again, I'm always talking about taking that innovation out of the university. Let's complete that cycle.

That's the program I'm familiar with.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

In 2023, the Canadian government dedicated $19 million to the Public Health Agency of Canada for economic incentives to propel antimicrobial projects. It's a three-year project aimed at improving access to two priority antimicrobials that are not currently available in Canada, but developed by international pharmaceutical companies.

Since AMR is a global issue, how important is it for the countries to work together?

[Sameeh Salama]

I'm not sure what happened to that money, because I can't really speak to it. Having served on the external advisory board, we continue to ask for that pilot program to be launched. The pan-Canadian action plan is already in its third year. That pilot has not been launched. I would really like to see that program translated into action, into something. I'm not really sure what happened to that funding.

[Aslam Rana, Liberal, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Dr. Dhami, did the pandemic accelerate innovation in areas that could benefit AMR research, like diagnostic or data sharing?

[Rita Dhami]

During the pandemic, we were in some ways fortunate to create stronger collaborations provincially and nationally with partners in other facilities. They were undergoing the same challenges with shortages of pharmaceuticals, shortages of personal protective equipment and those types of things. We saw the opportunities grow for partnerships and collaborations. We were certainly grateful to be able to share some of our pandemic preparedness plans on a provincial scale.

The coordination between some provinces is much more seamless, given that some provinces are by nature smaller and all fall under a single health authority. In larger provinces, like Ontario and B.C., it is more challenging to coordinate some of those efforts.

Postpandemic, we also had some growth with monitoring antimicrobial usage across Canada. I am mindful of our academic centres. Our acute-care teaching hospitals have the bandwidth to support research in some of the mandatory data reporting that comes along with pathogen and antimicrobial usage reporting.

However, we are challenged that we still have gaps in our smaller community hospitals and long-term care facilities, and with our primary care and community usage. Yes, absolutely, some of it is in the acute-care hospital space, but a large part of the antimicrobial prescribing is outside the four walls of a hospital.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Time is up for MP Rana.

We will now proceed to MP Blanchette-Joncas, for two and half minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I’d like to point out that I made a mistake regarding the cost of antimicrobial resistance based on data from the World Bank Group. I put the figure at $100 billion, but the correct figure is in fact $100 trillion.

Dr. Rose, between 2018 and 2021, nearly one in four hospital prescriptions for antibiotics were found to be inappropriate. I’d like to hear your thoughts as a clinician. How can we correct these practices and encourage responsible use of antimicrobials?

[Gregory Rose]

Thank you very much for an excellent question.

Stewardship is the way. Stewardship, of course, is a broad category of different interventions. We believe the most effective is a fairly labour-intensive intervention called prospective audit with intervention and feedback. Antimicrobial orders in hospital are reviewed by a specialized team, typically consisting of a pharmacist and often an infectious disease physician in larger hospitals or another physician. There is a conversation with prescribing physicians and nurse practitioners about the reasons for the antibiotic prescription that was given and suggestions of alternative options. The long-term effect of this small iterative nudges toward a more appropriate prescribing and a more educated health care workforce with better overall usage data.

In fact, there are studies increasingly demonstrating better resistance data. Typically, though, antimicrobial stewardship programs tend to run on what we call process metrics. How many defined daily doses of antibiotic X are used per day in the hospital? It's really hard for a hospital to be able to demonstrate a difference. You usually need large datasets and big research networks to be able to demonstrate the long-term effects.

As Dr. Dhami has said, when you're looking just at the acute-care hospitals, which is really where stewardship is done right now, you're missing the boat. There are about 66,000 beds in acute-care hospitals across Canada. There are 200,000 long-term care beds and multiple outpatient prescriptions, as well. We do not have effective programs for stewardship in long-term care or in the community.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

According to Policy Horizons Canada, antimicrobial resistance disruptions are underanticipated.

If no less than a federal agency tasked with warning the government can grasp the seriousness of the problem, why is it that we still don’t have a robust and consistent national plan with funding to address this issue?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I am sorry, but the time is up. If we could get a written answer to Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas' question, that would be really great. We will have it circulated to the members.

We will proceed to MP Ho for three and a half minutes and to MP Jaczek for three and a half minutes. Then we will end this panel.

MP Ho, you have three and a half minutes.

[Vincent Ho, Conservative, Richmond Hill South, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Salama, you said that Canada ranks last or close to last in access to antibiotics. What do you think is the reason for that? Is it federal government red tape that's causing this?