Science and Research Committee on Oct. 20th, 2025

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

If I could switch to you, Dr. Stinson, you and your colleagues work at the front line of some of the challenges we're seeing. One of the unfortunate things we have seen over the course of the last little while, which I think adds another layer of complexity to the work that I know you were trying to do and that you would like us to be doing, is the degree of misinformation and disinformation that has been spread in terms of prevention and treatment of new illnesses and new diseases as they come up.

It has shown up in the form of vaccine hesitancy. It has shown up in the form of misinformation about people trying to control some of the most unfortunate types of things, much of which, unfortunately, has been perpetuated by some politicians from the Conservative side of the House—not all, but certainly some.

What impact do you think that has on the work you are trying to do? What message would you have for politicians who have been trying to cause fear as new medications and new treatments emerge? What are the consequences of that type of misinformation on patient outcomes?

[Kevin Stinson]

Certainly, there is a lot of rhetoric, including rhetoric from south of the border right now, that is really ramping up hesitancy or skepticism in science. The challenge is more intrinsic to people. Your mind gets into a sense of what seems right, what seems normal, what seems familiar, so you can get into this pattern of correlation versus causation and not being able to sit back and look critically at data.

My sole comment on that—and I'm not going to touch on the political “one party versus the other” aspect—to people on both sides of the aisle would be to simply listen to the scientific experts in the field, because they're the ones sitting there doing the work to critically come up with statistical or analytical interpretations of the data.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Thank you for that, and thank you to everyone for their insights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Now we will proceed to MP Blanchette-Joncas.

Please go ahead. You will have six minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Dr. Hamelin, according to OECD data, Canada is the only G7 country to have reduced the share of its gross domestic product spent on research and development between 2001 and 2021, while all our partners increased their investments.

How do you explain a decline of this nature, and what concrete impact has it had on our ability to innovate and maintain a competitive pharmaceutical ecosystem?

[Bettina Hamelin]

Canada invests fewer dollars in research and development than other OECD and G7 countries. We've always invested less, and now we're losing even more in that respect.

However, I want to emphasize the fact that the pharmaceutical industry has been investing more and more in research and development in Canada for a number of years now. We can show you the data. Right now, they are investing $3.2 billion in research and development and forming partnerships within our ecosystem. Quebec, for example, has a thriving life sciences ecosystem. There's recognition of that, and industry is investing in it. In addition, 30% of our members' businesses are in Quebec.

Having said that, I think that the federal government and all provincial governments have an important role to play by having conversations with the industry and by putting incentives on the table to attract more investment to Quebec and Canada. Otherwise, we will continue to lag behind the rest of the world.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

I'll continue with the Quebec example you mentioned. You said it well: Quebec was a driving force in the pharmaceutical industry. We recall a number of pharmaceutical giants closing up in the early 2000s. Labs were closed down and we went through a brain drain as people left for other countries. We were able to retain a few experts in the ecosystem. However, during the COVID‑19 pandemic, Canada was entirely dependent on foreign partners. It remained the only G7 country unable to produce its own vaccine.

How do you perceive that? How can we prevent it from happening again? How can we develop real scientific and industrial independence?

[Bettina Hamelin]

First of all, we have extraordinary scientific capacity in Quebec and Canada. We have everything we need to build a life sciences industry in Canada. Then again, the federal and provincial governments would need to recognize this industry as a real economic driver in Canada and Quebec.

Plus, the industry model has changed. We must recognize that it's less of a model with big buildings and big labs and more of a consolidated model with partnerships and investments.

In Quebec, you were able to attract Moderna to build a vaccine production company, and that's great. In Ontario, we have Sanofi producing vaccines. In British Columbia, we have companies like AbCellera that are able to make antibodies against COVID and other infectious diseases. We really have the capacity to do that, so we have to invest, work with industry, develop incentives and create a market that helps Canadian and multinational businesses market their products in Canada.

We shouldn't have to wait for Health Canada approval for a year and another two and a half years to be reimbursed for a drug. It can take up to three and a half years, whereas the United States and Germany reimburse for drugs immediately. Therefore, markets must be developed hand in hand with the innovation system in Canada.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

You mentioned that Canada has no leadership on antimicrobial resistance in the G7, but France and Italy do. Do you think this delay is related to the fact that our share of GDP devoted to science has remained one of the lowest in the G7 since the early 2000s?

[Bettina Hamelin]

I think it's because we talk, but we don't take action. However, we know how to do it, we know how to create incentives, particularly for antibiotics in Canada. We can learn from other models and adapt them to Canada. We've already shown that it's possible, since we've worked with Ontario, and we want to work with Quebec on it.

We really need to get moving and save lives in Canada.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thanks a lot.

We will now start our second round of questioning, with Ms. DeRidder for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you so much.

Dr. Stinson, I was going to go down one path of questioning, but then you mentioned something that made me completely alter my thoughts here. You said that “one in 10” patients “is colonized with at least one” antibiotic-resistant organism during their stay in hospital. You're very community-focused, and you're right in my community in Kitchener, so I have some community questions for you.

What has this drug crisis in Kitchener contributed to the spread in the transmission of AROs in our community?

[Kevin Stinson]

To be clear, it's close to one in 10. It's a little bit below, and it's not necessarily colonized in that particular stay in hospital. However, because people are persistently colonized, it's a persistent issue for that patient.

Certainly, the drug and opioid epidemic and the associated homelessness or underhoused challenges that that's creating.... You have people being crammed into very poor living conditions, often with poor states of sanitation, poor overall states of health and poor access to health care facilities themselves. It ends up being an area that's really unexplored but highly concerning for transmission within that population. You imagine one person going back into that population or into that encampment, for example, and the challenges. If they are colonized with an ARO, they can now start to transmit to those around them. Again, it's not necessarily an infection at that point; it's colonization. Now, though, the person has resistant bacteria as part of their normal microflora. If the person gets, let's say, a bacterium from injecting opioids, that now has a risk of being a resistant bacterium, which has significant impacts on their health.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

It's compounding the situation.

[Kevin Stinson]

Absolutely.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

In Kitchener, we had a huge population influx because of the failed international student program. Did you see that population influx as well because of that program, especially in Kitchener?

[Kevin Stinson]

I don't know that I've seen an international student population necessarily being what drives into the hospital sector. Overwhelmingly, the majority of those coming into hospital are still older adults. We certainly see some younger adults, and we see some students, but I don't know that it was that big a driver in changing the dynamics of the population coming to the hospital. Unfortunately, I just don't have the statistics on those admission demographics.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going to ask Kim one question, and then, if I have time, I'll come back to you, Dr. Stinson.

Kim, do you have data on people in our country who have died from sepsis or infection to date because of homelessness or drug use?

[Kim Neudorf]

I don't. The social demographics that go along with the microbiology are an area that needs to be studied. It is underinvestigated.

AMR, sepsis and sexually transmitted infections in our province are very high. MRSA is very high. Syphilis and antimicrobial-resistant gonorrhea are very high. I recently saw the statistic that between 2018 and 2022, there was a 1,444% increase in syphilis. I can't remember if it was in the prairie provinces or Saskatchewan.

Regarding your last question to Dr. Stinson, on the disparity our communities are in right now and the way it's increased in the past 10 years, the lack of access to sanitation and hygiene is really affecting their dignity, of course, but it's affecting infection control and sexually transmitted infections as well. Sanitation is a part of it, and so is gynecological health. They're all a part of it.

I think our communities need to do a better job of helping the vulnerable who do not have access to hygiene and water hubs. We could create shower hubs, which I think they are doing in Vancouver, or there are thoughts about it. In my province, in Saskatoon, we—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. DeRidder, your time is up.

[Kelly DeRidder, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to MP McKelvie. I think you are sharing the time with MP Jaczek.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

She is welcome to start.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses today.

My first question is for Dr. Hamelin.

The approval process starts with Health Canada. Since you've referenced international approvals being so much quicker in various countries, do you have any recommendations for reciprocity between Canada and other like-minded, similarly science-based organizations in other countries?

I'd like to start with that.