Evidence of meeting #3 for Special Committee on Indigenous Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aboriginal.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lisa Hitch  Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

6:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Stella Ambler

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the third meeting of the Special Committee on Violence Against Indigenous Women.

Today we are very pleased to have our guest here, Lisa Hitch, from the Department of Justice. We're very anxious to hear from you. Thank you very much for being here tonight, after hours at that.

As you may know, you have 10 minutes for comments, and then we will ask some questions and have a bit of a back and forth, as per our prescribed formula, which we agreed on previously.

Again, thank you, and welcome. You may begin.

6:10 p.m.

Lisa Hitch Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss an issue of grave concern to the Government of Canada and the Department of Justice Canada.

My name is Lisa Hitch. I am the Senior Counsel at the Family, Children and Youth Section of the Department of Justice Policy Sector.

In my brief opening remarks this evening, l'd like to set out an outline of three areas: the background to this complex issue; the scope of the Government of Canada responses to date; and, finally, some of the more recent Justice Canada responses.

Disproportionate levels of violence faced by indigenous women and girls, and in particular levels of violent victimization, have been of serious concern to governments in Canada for some time. As with the previous 1999 general social survey and the 2004 general social survey, the 2009 general social survey showed that aboriginal Canadians are three times more likely to suffer a violent victimization than non-aboriginal Canadians. Most of those are young women aged 15 to 34, and most of the violence is perpetrated by someone known to the victim, although aboriginal people are also more likely to be victims of violence by strangers. Aboriginal women are three times more likely to be victims of spousal abuse, seven times more likely to be victims of homicide, and unfortunately, it appears, victims of serial killers. My colleagues at Statistics Canada will provide more detail to the committee next week on the available statistics.

Beyond the statistics, however, a large number of reports and studies on violence against indigenous women and girls guide our work. Over the last few decades, these have ranged from the 1995 Royal Commission Report on Aboriginal Peoples through the 1999 Report of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry of Manitoba, focusing on the deaths of Helen Betty Osborne and John Joseph Harper, to the work of the Native Women's Association of Canada and many others. Indeed, the 2005 report of the Ending Violence Association of British Columbia and others is entitled “Researched to Death”. As the title would suggest, it is not alone in urging the need for action. Together, these reports represent a rich resource and background for the many actions taken by governments at all levels in the development of policy and funding of programs designed to address this violence, in particular because many include the voices of indigenous women, men, and children, speaking about their lives and experiences of violence.

Despite the many actions taken by governments in Canada at all levels, individually and in concert with one another and with aboriginal peoples and communities, recent Statistics Canada publications point out that violence against women continues to be a persistent and ongoing challenge, and one that is still considerably more dangerous for aboriginal women. One of the reasons is the complexity and interrelatedness of the root causes of the greater vulnerability to violence of aboriginal women and girls. Although there are commonalities in some instances, individual instances of violence are diverse geographically, culturally, and in situation.

Given the wide range of root causes for the violence, the way those causes interact, and the great cultural diversity, no single solution can resolve the violence for all first nations and aboriginal communities in Canada. The intergenerational cycles of violence and abuse that threaten aboriginal communities by factors such as their lateral violence, collateral damage on child victims and witnesses, and impact on the vulnerability of women and girls who leave their home communities will require time to effectively be broken community by community.

The Government of Canada has focused on making significant expenditures in a number of core areas to improve individual and community well-being, including in economic development, education, labour market participation, housing, health, family violence programming, policing, and other relevant areas. Government of Canada officials are engaged in that work in a number of departments and agencies, including Public Safety Canada, Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, Status of Women Canada, Health Canada, and others. My colleagues from some of these other departments will be able to provide more details on some of those broader initiatives.

Much of this Government of Canada action is in partnership with aboriginal organizations and groups, the provinces and territories, and other stakeholders. They respond to the myriad studies identifying the root causes of violence in aboriginal communities and the additional vulnerability to violence of aboriginal women and girls. As an example, federal-provincial-territorial ministers in several portfolios have declared that finding solutions to violence against aboriginal women and girls is a priority.

In the Justice and Public Safety portfolio, at their November 2012 meeting, federal-provincial-territorial ministers approved an implementation plan for the 52 recommendations in the 2012 report to them from the Missing Women Working Group. That report set out findings on root causes, including research on serial sexual predators, identifying characteristics that increase vulnerability for victims, such as age, gender, perceived race, ethnicity, addictions, and mental illness. The report also discussed best practices in detecting potential serial murderers and strategies to identify and protect marginalized persons from becoming victims.

Ministers also directed officials to develop a framework to coordinate federal, provincial, and territorial responses to the higher levels of violence experienced by aboriginal women and girls across the law enforcement and justice spectrum.

Provincial and territorial ministers responsible for aboriginal affairs had earlier directed officials to develop a document on root causes of the violence, and federal-provincial-territorial ministers responsible for the Status of Women had adopted a declaration in 2007, in Iqaluit. The Government of Canada also provided $5 million over five years, from 2005 to 2010, to the Native Women's Association of Canada for their Sisters in Spirit initiative, through Status of Women Canada, in response to concerns about missing and murdered aboriginal women.

When their research showed a disturbingly high number of missing and murdered aboriginal women across Canada, the government announced a further investment of $25 million over five years, in budget 2010. This supported a seven-point strategy aimed at improving the response of law enforcement and the justice system to cases of missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls, and increasing community safety, as an important criminal justice priority.

This commitment included a number of initiatives at the RCMP and at Public Safety Canada, including establishing a new National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains; enhancing the Canadian Police Information Centre database; creating a national website to help match old or missing persons cases and unidentified human remains; and working with aboriginal communities to develop community safety plans, as those communities are best placed to establish priorities for effective change. It also included initiatives at Justice Canada, including support for the development and adaptation of victim services that are culturally appropriate for aboriginal people and can provide support for the families of missing and murdered women.

A number of important community initiatives have also been funded, including support for extending the Canadian Red Cross's Walking the Prevention Circle to Inuit communities.

We would also like to draw the attention of the committee to the recent compendium of promising practices to reduce violence and increase safety of aboriginal women in Canada. The compendium is an online resource developed by the Aboriginal Research Institute to support aboriginal communities seeking practical responses to violence in their communities, by allowing them to build on the experience of other communities facing similar challenges.

We know from the work of the Native Women's Association of Canada, the earlier work of Manitoba's Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, and from the work of many others, that the higher vulnerability of aboriginal women and girls to violence is a complex issue. It requires coordinated action from federal, provincial, and territorial departments responsible for justice, public safety, policing, gender issues, and aboriginal affairs, working with aboriginal people and other stakeholders to develop more effective and appropriate solutions in each community to bring lasting change.

Honouring the women and their families requires government at all levels to know their stories, to learn from their circumstances, and to take action towards ending the violence and preventing further deaths.

Thank you.

6:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Stella Ambler

Thank you, Ms. Hitch.

We'll now begin our first round of questioning for seven minutes.

Ms. Crowder.

6:20 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

That's great. Thank you, Madam Chair.

And thank you, Ms. Hitch, for coming before the committee. We would agree with you that the case of murdered and missing aboriginal women is a serious one, and we would also agree that it's been researched to death; there is a real need for action. I know you addressed the root causes as well as some of the other measures that are in place.

One of the things I wanted to touch on was with regard to information gathering. Without good information it's often very difficult to develop good public policy. I want to touch on a paper called “Good practices in legislation on violence against women” done by the United Nations as a report of the expert group meeting back in 2008. One of the things the report pointed out was the importance of collecting statistical data. They made a recommendation that legislation should:

require that statistical data be gathered at regular intervals on the causes, consequences and frequency of all forms of violence against women, and on the effectiveness of measures to prevent, punish and eradicate violence against women and protect and support complainants/survivors; and

require that such statistical data be disaggregated by sex, race, age, ethnicity and other relevant characteristics.

Of course they say this information is fundamental for monitoring the efficacy of legislation. Of course we don't have legislation specifically, nor do we have a national action plan on violence against aboriginal women. Could you comment? I know you mentioned the police have established a National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains, and that some data will be gathered as a result. Can you speak to what kind of data it will deal with? Root causes? Will it be divided by age, race, ethnicity? Will it look at evaluating the measures after the fact to see how effective the measures are?

6:20 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

I can try. I will say that this question would most likely be better answered by both my colleagues at Public Safety Canada and at Statistics Canada. With regard to the statistics more generally, I believe not just that study but a number of studies emphasize the need for information gathering. There will, however, be limitations in the data. Statistics Canada will elaborate, I'm sure.

There have been some difficulties, as you know, with collecting information, specifically with disaggregating data on aboriginal identity. Although there are recent changes to the national CPIC, the Canadian Police Information Centre data collection system, which will allow police to better record information on aboriginal identity, there's always going to be difficulty in some circumstances with front-line officers. Their primary function is not to collect statistical data but to address criminal behaviour. They are not always going to be in a position to know the race and culture of an individual who's missing or murdered.

Making a judgment that's based on ascribing status is not going to be sufficient for anyone's purposes, and certainly where police can access that information from either the victim or from a situation where someone has registered status, or where family members provide that information, it can be entered, but data collection is going to be an ongoing challenge.

As I said, both my colleagues in those other two departments can probably elaborate on that more.

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

I guess a challenge we have is that without adequate data collection, what we have seen, accurately or inaccurately in the media, is an attempt to downplay the severity of the problem. Without adequate data collection it is going to make it a challenge to determine whether the measures that have been proposed are even having an impact.

What I understood you to say was that the issues around violence against aboriginal women and girls is not decreasing. If that's the case, and this money is being spent and these measures are being put in place, how do we know they're effective? Quite frankly, out of the measures you listed, with the exception of some work around community safety, I don't see most of those measures addressing the root causes of violence against aboriginal women and girls.

6:25 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

My apology, but is that a question?

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Yes, it is a question.

I guess what I'm saying is that we don't have information. We can't assess the effectiveness of the programs, and I don't see the list of what you gave us as addressing the root causes.

How are you going to determine that anything you've listed is being effective?

6:25 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

With respect, in many instances there are a lot of studies that are showing the root causes. If you look at the backgrounder B to the original October 2010 announcement on the seven-step strategy for missing and murdered aboriginal women, it sets out some of the more commonly agreed on root causes. It then goes on to outline some of the Government of Canada's investments to address those specific root causes. I don't believe I can answer more than that on that particular part of your question.

When you're asking about the need for specific information, I suppose the problem will always be there. There are measures being taken to try to improve it as much as possible.

I think it is, conversely, a very difficult issue. Aboriginal identity is something that is very private to many people. They wish to control the designation of whether or not they are aboriginal and how they believe they identify themselves.

There will be difficulties with the police officers who are on the front line collecting information when they're there to respond, for example, to a domestic incident. It's not necessarily the first thing they can ask someone.

6:25 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

If you'll forgive me, Ms. Hitch, I wouldn't expect a front-line officer to have that as the first question when they're responding to a call, but there are ongoing investigations and whatnot.

Do I still have some time?

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Stella Ambler

I'm afraid not. Sorry.

Thank you, Ms. Crowder.

Mr. Goguen, for seven minutes.

6:25 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for testifying and sharing your expertise.

My question is somewhat along the same lines. I don't know if it probes as deeply as the root causes of the disappearances.

There appear to be a fair number of resources dedicated toward preventing the deaths, and of course the disappearances, yet there appear to be a wide range of circumstances under which people are disappearing—indigenous women and girls have disappeared.

Have our studies permitted us to identify patterns, repetitive instances, or circumstances leading to disappearances? I don't know if it goes so far as root causes, but when you're doing investigations or you're an officer in the field, there should be some clues, tips, things to look for—flags.

6:25 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

Yes. As any policy officer in government, part of my duty is to collect information that is publicly available. I include reports, studies, any information publicly available on an issue that I'm studying. In studying the issue of violence against aboriginal women, the cases of missing and murdered aboriginal women are extremely important. We had the NWAC study to start our work, but there are a number of other studies and an awful lot of information, which are available publicly, that give us at least a preliminary analysis of the range of circumstances.

As I said, the geographic distribution is quite extreme. There are significant differences in terms of cultural issues, and there are very great differences in terms of situation. The cases range from the victims of serial killers, as we've seen with the B.C. Missing Women Commission of Inquiry, through to domestic violence circumstances, family violence circumstances, cases where women have died either crossing highways, because it's the only way to go home, or have disappeared from highways. There are a lot of instances of women who were fully employed and are missing or murdered, in circumstances that were very different from the circumstances that were looked at in the Oppal commission. There were a lot of young girls who were going to school. There are a number of instances where people died of exposure. In order to understand the issue and to deal with the violence and to deal with the deaths, it's important to look at all of those circumstances.

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

It would go without saying that it would be important for this committee to review the references you've just made to those studies. Am I correct?

6:30 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

We would agree. Yes.

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Could you prioritize which ones we should start with? Are they so numerous?

You're the expert. You tell us, where do we start reading?

6:30 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

I'm positive that your Library of Parliament people will also give you advice on that, but the department would be pleased to take it under advisement, if that's useful to you, to provide you with a list of the major reports we rely on.

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

That would be most helpful.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Stella Ambler

Thank you, Mr. Goguen.

Next on the list, for seven minutes, is Ms. Bennett.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Thanks very much.

To follow up on my colleague, Ms. Crowder, if it's measured, it gets noticed; if it gets noticed, it gets done. Without disaggregated data and without our really being able to track this, how do we know that any of these interventions are working?

In your national compendium on promising practices, how far along is that? What numbers are they using to fund...? A best practice has to be working. It's not that it seemed like a good idea at the time. If it's a promising practice, it means something's working. How do you collect those, and how do you know if what people are doing is working?

6:30 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

The Department of Justice worked with the Aboriginal Research Institute and with some 13 other individual contractors. We had information from a lot of communities that were applying for funding, not just to the Department of Justice funds but to other funds—that they were facing barriers and frustrations in setting forward a proposal and then getting feedback that it wasn't of interest. Part of that reasoning was that it appeared that a large number of communities were being forced to start from square one. They weren't aware of other promising practices in other communities.

Clearly, of course, as we've said, with geographic—

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

The community that's putting forward a promising practice has an evaluation that says this worked. The number of missing and murdered was reduced, or the support for families was increased.

My concern is like the parliamentary secretary's. The work of this committee is to fill in some gaps. We know we have to work in a holistic way, and I think we're concerned that when it's an FPT working group, the justice people from around the country and the public safety people are doing something else and the child welfare people are doing something else. At some point we have to be able to bring everybody together, because we know this isn't working across different government departments and across different jurisdictions. We're stuck. Clearly, we're not making progress if we don't even have the numbers.

Like the parliamentary secretary, I would like your advice.

We have all these root causes—the trafficking piece, young women fleeing abusive relationships in foster care—but I think there's also the discrimination and marginalization of indigenous women. Effective and unbiased policing and the culture of policing seem to be something the women talk to us about.

How would you go about this work, in that you're encyclopedic on everything that's been done already? How would you advise this committee to go forward?

6:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

I would agree that what you're identifying is a concern. It has been identified in a number of reports and studies. It's also been identified in a number of federal-provincial-territorial committees. We are working to try to cut across the silos between sectors by looking at the effect—

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Is a ministerial committee, a committee of cabinet, a group of ministers tackling this?

6:35 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Family, Children and Youth Section, Department of Justice

Lisa Hitch

Are you asking me whether there's a group of ministers who are addressing—