Status of Women Committee on April 17th, 2007

[Robert Wright]

May I say something? You have been very patient with me, but these are really important issues.

I would like to provide the committee with an assessment of the progress over the last 10 years, where governments have worked on child poverty and made a difference. It still exists; it's still a challenge. The last 10 years have been a great success story, and it's because governments in Canada

have had the opportunity to make a difference together. We have the opportunity to do that now with a new program.

I will provide some assessment as a background, because the issues raised are very important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Wright, please provide us with that analysis, because we all hear a lot but have nothing tangible to look at. Perhaps you could also do that with the question I asked, as to how we are helping the poor.

Ms. Mathyssen, you will be the last one, for five minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to ask a question in regard to the benefits for low-income women who want to get off welfare and go into the workforce. I wondered if there was ever any discussion about the importance of a national child care system—an affordable, regulated system—as opposed to $100 per month and the fact that this doesn't create a single child care space.

Was a discussion ever held within the ministry? Also, was there a discussion about how you would move forward to create those spaces?

[Robert Wright]

I wasn't here for the 2006 budget, but I know there were some important decisions as part of that budget. There were also some important discussions here. I know that Minister Flaherty met with his counterpart, including Judy Wasylycia-Leis. In terms of child care, she emphasized the importance of working through the provincial governments. So the $500 million transfer to provincial governments for child care was a factor in that decision.

As I said in my previous intervention, the focus of discussions with our provincial colleagues on women entering the workforce was on creating a new system—the working income tax benefit—that governments can support. This makes a difference in people getting off welfare and getting into the workplace.

The examples we used would show that currently for a single mother in Nova Scotia, going to work costs money. If she has a minimum-wage job, the effective wage rate is about $1 an hour. The working income tax benefit can enhance this, not dramatically up front, but it will almost double the return to $2 an hour.

But we can start working with provincial governments to make a difference by helping people who wish to work. It's a great economic initiative for the country. It helps people enhance their income without being dependent on welfare, which again is the principal focus of our collaboration right now with the provincial governments.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So $2 an hour would be about $80 a week for a full-time job.

[Robert Wright]

That's right. Again, it's a first step. What we're looking at is an annual stock-taking.

Also, my comment regarding Madame Demers' point was that the progress we've made—which is meaningful, and there are still challenges—has been over a 10-year period.

We need a mechanism in place, a common commitment to make a difference in this area, and we will make a difference over a number of years. So that's a priority for this department over the next several years.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

I have a more technical question.

The Commonwealth Secretariat developed six tools for engendering national budgets: sex-disaggregated beneficiary assessment; sex-disaggregated public expenditure incidence analysis; a gender-aware policy evaluation of public expenditure; a gender-aware budget statement; sex-disaggregated analysis of the impact of the budget over time; and a gender-aware, medium-term economic policy framework. I wondered if you had used any of these tools in terms of Canada's recent budget. If so, could you explain how it worked and evolved?

[Robert Wright]

To get to that point, you have to do gender-based analysis, and that's what we're starting to do. We're making some important progress, but we're not there yet.

Also, the point we made in terms of the comments of one of your colleagues is that what we do is provide advice to the minister. He would have to consider options in terms of how he packaged his budget, around considerations with his Commonwealth colleagues. So I can't speak for him on that matter at this time. But before we can consider such a thing, we have to make sure we've enhanced our capacity for gender-based analysis. We have to stay on the track for a considerable period of time yet, broaden the application within our department beyond tax policy, and continue to make that sort of progress, before we could seriously consider some of those options.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Does your department need more resources in order to do that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Mathyssen, we are done.

Thank you very much for being here. You can see how very interested we are in ensuring that the GBA that was developed two years ago, when we started working with Finance to ensure that they would roll it out to all the programs, etc., is critical. We're happy to see that you're working with it, that you're training people to understand what GBA means. We have a long way to go, and we're hoping that ministers listen to your advice when you give them the GBA analysis. We look forward to receiving your analysis on how we can help with the economic enhancement of women, as well.

Thank you so much for being here. Some of the questions.... You're a deputy minister; you know how to handle those things.

Thank you.

We will have a short break. I'll suspend the meeting and we'll go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Smith, please could you read your motion.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you.

I put this motion forward, Madam Chair, simply because this is the kind of thing we had talked about in this committee. I wanted to underline the kind of direction that we were going in:

Pursuant to the Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women recommend that the government orient its 2007 spending for Status of Women Canada and the various other Canadian government agencies to address the crucial and pressing issue of violence towards women and girls; support the full participation of women in Canadian society; address the challenges women face by promoting projects that improve the situation of women in key areas such as women's economic status; and that the adoption of this motion be reported to the House forthwith.

I ask for the support of all members in this motion. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Discussion?

Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Madam Chair, I'd like to move an amendment to Ms. Smith's motion.

First of all, I'd like to add a few words after the second sentence in the motion. It would read as follows:

Address the crucial and pressing issue of violence toward women and girls; Support the full participation and promote the equality of women in Canadian society;

I'd also like to add a few words at the end of the other paragraph, which would read as follows:

Address the challenges women face by promoting projects that improve the situation of women in key areas such as women's economic status and support groups working to that end, and human rights groups in particular; And that the adoption of this motion be reported to the House forthwith.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

That is not my motion. The motion has been completely altered. My motion talks about the full participation of women in Canadian society. This is a discussion, Madam Chair, we've had around this committee. We believe, and I believe very strongly, that under the Canadian Constitution all people who are Canadian citizens are equal in Canada. It's to put down the barriers. This is a discussion we've had around....

We have a right. We're equal. The barriers have to go down. This is where there's some disagreement in terms of the words that we use.

I think in some respects we're very close, but I would not want to have my motion altered in this way because I think it has a political agenda behind it. What I'm more interested in is seeing that women on the ground get exactly what they need in terms of support. Put down the barriers.

There is nothing in my motion that goes against women, but supports women. So I'm asking maybe, Madam Demers, if you'd be so kind as to put forth another motion with that intent, I would consider the support of that. I do need support for the motion and what I'm putting in right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Ms. Smith.

Ms. Mathyssen, are you responding to Ms. Smith's motion?

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes, Madam Chair.

I'm having some difficulty understanding inasmuch as this motion talks about bringing down barriers, but it seems to me that the ability to do just that has been removed from the Status of Women Canada department because 12 regional offices have been closed. There's no more research. There's no more advocacy. So unless there is a mechanism whereby this can happen, I don't see the point of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Well, Madam Chair--

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I'm sorry, I'll come back.

Madame Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm very sorry, but I'm not defending a political agenda. My sole purpose is to advance the cause of women, period. My colleague and I have been travelling around Quebec during the last two two-week adjournment periods. We've met with women's groups, more than during our meetings here. When you've received 36% of the vote, you can't claim that 100% of people think like you do. I'm sorry, but that's not the actual situation. The actual situation is that women everywhere, in all regions of Quebec, in all towns, in rural and urban areas, express the same complaints, have the same demands. They aren't happy that these cuts have been imposed and they don't believe that the word “equality” should disappear from Status of Women Canada or from Status of Women Canada's documents. They don't believe they can demand their rights if we gag and muzzle them.

This motion constitutes false help for women, false help with regard to their freedom and their freedom of expression. It's not true, Madam Chair. I'm going to vote against this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Ms. Demers.

Ms. Smith.

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

With all due respect, I put this motion together because for the past two weeks I have been travelling in different parts of Canada, in my riding, and I dare say in Montreal, and I talked about my motion to several women's groups in Montreal. I was talking on human trafficking, and then we went aside and talked about this particular motion.

I believe women are equal. I believe the barriers need to be taken down. I think maybe there's a difference in semantics, but I have presented this today because I will not vote against something that says “address the crucial and pressing issue of violence toward women and girls; support the full participation”—the full participation—“of women in Canadian society; address the challenges women face by promoting projects that improve the situation of women in key areas such as women's economic status”, and that the adoption of this, of course, be brought to the House.

Now, this second motion of amendment is not an amendment, with all due respect. It's another motion, and I would welcome the member to put it on the order paper as her individual motion.

I have four daughters, I have worked with women's groups for years, and I am a woman myself who has worked in mathematics and science for 22 years, and I have to tell you I know what it's like to fight for what you're doing. I think this is a very strong motion, and I would ask the members opposite to lay aside political agendas and support the motion. Today we can do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.