Evidence of meeting #29 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was statistics.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
10:30 a.m.
Chief of the General Social Survey, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Yes.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I'll pass. Thank you.
Did you want to say something?
10:30 a.m.
Director, National Council of Welfare, As an Individual
I was going to quickly follow up. Some people get really frustrated when they hear discussions like this. Who in this room understands what goes into the GDP? Anybody? Nobody complains about it as an indicator. Why do we put excessive demands on these gender-equality things? It comes down to what we value, what we believe, and what we want to accomplish.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Patricia Davidson
Thank you.
We do have a request to allow Senator Ruth to ask a question.
Senator Ruth.
10:35 a.m.
Senator Nancy Ruth
I'm interested in who's measuring the impact of bills that come before both houses. I have two minutes, so I think I'm going to tell a story, and you can think about it, because I don't think it's being done. Having examined the new budget officer last night, I am convinced it will not be done in the future by an officer of Parliament, and I'm appalled.
For instance, we have passed the reservist bill, which allows federally regulated companies and the federal public service to give time off, save pension benefits, leave the jobs the way they are so they can come back in. So I examined some reservists. Now, we know most reservists are white men. I asked those in the public service, given their training and communication skills, discipline, planning, all the things the military does, loyalty, and so on, if they and their buddies were progressing faster in the federal civil service than others in the group in which they entered. Their answer, after a lot of shrugging of shoulders, was yes.
The implication of this is that more white men will be ADMs and DMs in time. Who is looking at a bill like that and saying this might not be good for women, if it's a public civil service? Who does that among you? And if not, how could you do that, and would you?
10:35 a.m.
Chief of the General Social Survey, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
It's not Statistics Canada.
I will say something about that, though, because it goes back to what you heard earlier. If you have a program logic model that says you're putting in place this program and these are the outcomes you hope to get and these are some measurable outputs you could look at, and if gender is taken into account in that, then StatsCan gets together with the departments and they say “This is what we want as our output. Where can we get it? Is it already there, or can we develop it?” I think that's our role.
I'll leave the rest to the others.
10:35 a.m.
Senior Advisor, Gender-based Analysis Support Services, Status of Women Canada
Ideally, that's exactly the process that should happen, and ideally it means that the department that sponsors the legislation should be doing that kind of analysis from day one when it starts thinking about the bill. We're not there yet, so that's why you're seeing bills and legislation go right through as though they had never seen the light of day from a gender perspective.
The other level of challenge that should exist is also starting at the central agencies, and I believe you've heard the central agencies come and speak. Basically, their role is being strengthened to look at legislation like that when it's still in draft form, to start asking exactly those kinds of questions and making the links.
So we're moving in that direction. Unfortunately, as we move there is also legislation and policies and programs that go through, which have not had the benefit of this challenge function and the benefit of looking at it in a much more planned and trained way. They will one day.
10:35 a.m.
Senator Nancy Ruth
How many years will that take? What kind of help can we give you?
10:35 a.m.
Senior Advisor, Gender-based Analysis Support Services, Status of Women Canada
We look forward to your recommendations.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Director, National Council of Welfare, As an Individual
I think it's been said. I'm not putting any guesses on it.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Patricia Davidson
Is there anything else, Senator? You have another minute left.
10:35 a.m.
Senator Nancy Ruth
Tell me, when Statistics Canada collects its data, given issues that have come up this morning, do you have any real way to measure impact and comment on it?
10:35 a.m.
Chief of the General Social Survey, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Yes, we can measure impact and comment on it. The line is drawn at drawing conclusions or making recommendations. It's at that point. Our role is to determine what the data we have collected tell us.
10:35 a.m.
Senator Nancy Ruth
So you can tell me that 40.4% of women don't file income tax, and therefore tax measures don't do whatever. But you will not interpret anything into public policy.
I don't really have a question, but I need you all to work with the new budget officer. He needs a lot of help. He likes Statistics Canada a lot, but he needs to know how to.... If we go to him with bills for costing, and they don't do a gender analysis in that office, we're in trouble. Let me tell you, this man knows zilch. He's trying. He thinks a course will help.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Patricia Davidson
Thank you very much, Senator.
We'll move on to Madame Demers for the last five minutes.
10:40 a.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Cooper, in your presentation, under the heading “Next Steps,” you refer to stakeholders and key stakeholders twice. Since Status of Women Canada has stopped subsidizing research groups, rights advocacy groups and lobbying groups, who are your non-governmental stakeholders? How do you choose them?
Ms. Dryburgh, I sensed in your presentation that you were doing a lot more work on statistics. You have segmented data; you can establish specific data for certain departments that request it.
Ms. Cooper said that Status of Women Canada didn't have enough data to establish indicators. What are you lacking in order to be able to provide the data that Ms. Cooper needs? What are you lacking, staff, money?
I'll listen to Ms. Cooper's answer first, then yours.
10:40 a.m.
Research Analyst, Status of Women Canada
In terms of the next steps, to answer the question I think you're getting at, if I understand the question correctly, it is how will we consult civil society. I think that's the question.
10:40 a.m.
Senior Advisor, Gender-based Analysis Support Services, Status of Women Canada
The exercise isn't based on a partnership model. We're trying to open the door to as many people as possible, whether it be individuals or various non-governmental groups, in order to examine and establish indicators.
The way to do that remains to be determined, but there are various options. We could draw on the consultations that were conducted in 2005. People would travel across Canada and we could also proceed via the Internet.
