Status of Women Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Claude Guimond, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

In what fields of activity has the fact that women have more education than men been the most concretely visible? Are there any concrete fields of activity?

[Cara Williams, Chief, Social Analysis and Research, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada]

When we look at health occupations, as Jane has mentioned, we see that the ratio between men and women has increased, meaning that there has been a decline in impact for health occupations. Women's average hourly earnings are higher than those of men. Their ratio has also improved in management occupations. The ratio has gone from 78% to 82% in 2008, meaning that women earn about 82% of what men working full-time earn. That's up from 78% in 1997. In business and finance, women have also made improvements. They now earn 85% of what a man working full-time earns.

There are a number of occupations related to those with higher levels of education for which the gap has declined between women's and men's earnings.

[Claude Guimond, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

All right, thank you.

Regarding my first question, about the difference in Quebec and the rest of Canada due to the pay equity issue, I would like to know if you have any data on the impact that this has had on the Quebec economy. If so, we would like to have that data, please.

[Jane Badets]

I guess, as you see on slide 6, we would be able to produce that information for Quebec, to see how the female-to-male hourly wage ratio in different sectors—by industries, or in particular we've looked at occupations—has changed over time. That is something that would be available from our data; you could look at it.

[Claude Guimond, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you.

I do not know if my colleague—

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Madam Chair, do we have any time left?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

You have about two and a half minutes.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you very much Madam Chair.

Thank you very much, ladies.

You showed us the table illustrating the share of total employment that part-time work represents. In previous studies, Statistics Canada said that most women, nearly 90% of them, were working on a part-time basis by choice. Do you think that your studies might be biased because the questions that you put are not specific enough?

Thus, witnesses have told us that if they worked on a part-time basis, it was not really by choice but rather because there was no transportation, no child care service, etc. They decided not to work because they had no other choice. Do you think that by putting more specific questions, you could succeed in giving us a better picture, a more adequate and a more real picture of the status of the women who are working at part-time jobs?

[Cara Williams]

When women work voluntarily part-time, on the labour force survey there are follow-up questions. It asks what the reasons were for the voluntary part-time and whether it was for care of family. So you can look beyond just the voluntary and involuntary; you can look at more details for the voluntary part-time. It's definitely possible, but we don't have that information here today.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Very well. Thank you very much.

Let me come back to the previous question. The minister was asked, a bit earlier, that a more complete study be done on the invisible work done by men and women. This has not been done since 1992.

Do you think that you will be able to carry out this study, if Status of Women Canada and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada ask you to do it?

[Rosemary Bender]

Statistics Canada produces estimates of the value of unpaid household work. These estimates are used to identify the productive activities that are not covered in the current estimate of gross national product. Statistics Canada last measured the value of unpaid household work in 1995, for the reference year 1992. This program does not have ongoing funding, and work is conducted when its measurement is considered a priority and resources are identified. If Madam Chair allows me, I could elaborate a bit more on what this entails.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Perhaps there will be an opportunity later; we need to move on. But before we do, just as a reminder, if you could please provide the data on the effects of the pay equity settlement on the Quebec economy, we would appreciate it very much.

Madame O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm sharing my time with Ms. Brown.

Welcome, ladies. Thank you very much for taking time to be with us this afternoon.

First of all, as we know, more and more focus is being placed on pay equity. I'm just thinking that back in 2004, I think it was, the pay equity task report that came out commented on joint responsibilities of the unions and the employers to ensure that there was in fact equitable compensation. How does this legislation ensure that employees and employers are held accountable for providing an equitable compensation regime?

[Jane Badets]

What Statistics Canada can do is provide the data on a number of aspects concerning it. What we've done today is present you information, for example, on hourly wages for different occupations by gender, and you can disaggregate it a lot more in terms of full-time, full year, or part-time. The information is there; we provide lots of information. There's lots of information on our website, for example, by gender, on the economic and labour market conditions of men and women. Our role is to provide that information to inform discussions such as this.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

But is it not true that equitable pay is negotiated, most times, within unions and at times of negotiations?

[Jane Badets]

That I don't know. Our role is to provide the building blocks, the data out there to show the information. We have rates of unionization, and I think we would probably have some, certainly, on our labour market--I'm not sure about the labour force survey, but on the extent to which workers are unionized across Canada. There are lots of ways to disaggregate this information and inform discussions such as this.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Ms. Brown.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for your presentation, ladies.

As a woman who has spent a great deal of my adult life self-employed, I understand that the pay I receive is based on the merit of the service I provide to my clients. I'm looking at “business management and public administration”, from which it would appear to me that in your field of study on number 4 of the script you've given us, women have made a great deal of progress in that area.

I guess my question is whether you have conducted any studies on women in business and on what kind of salary potential they have. Are there any statistics we can work on? I know many women who are in business for themselves who are exceptionally successful, and I'm wondering whether you have any accumulated data on this.

[Cara Williams]

We have information on self-employment for women. We know that women are almost as likely as men to be self-employed; however, the type of self-employment they have is quite different. For example, women are less likely to have employees when they're self-employed. They're a kind of one-person show when they do it, and therefore their wages are slightly lower than those of men who are self-employed.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Yet I would suspect that many women and many of the women I know who are self-employed are what would have been considered a cottage industry. Many of them work out of their homes, where they have a home office, so the reflection in their wages may be offset by the fact that they are able to use tax considerations for the expenses of using their home. Has that kind of analysis been done?

[Cara Williams]

We just look at either their total income or their average hourly earnings or wages. We haven't looked at the data when we look at tax files to see how much is written off—

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

However, that may really skew the numbers, wouldn't you think?

[Cara Williams]

It's one of the things you always have to take into consideration whenever you examine self-employment at all. It's the same with farm incomes; it's hard to compare with employees' income.

[Lois Brown, Conservative, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Yet I would suggest that there are even spouses of some of the members of Parliament who are running farms or running industries now because their spouse is otherwise occupied and they have taken over the role that may have traditionally been looked on as the purview of the male, and they are exceptionally successful in it.

I would suggest that perhaps some work needs to be done in collecting that data, because many women I know who are self-employed are exceptionally successful. I would suggest that my riding reflects much of that; in Newmarket--Aurora there are many women who are part of our chambers of commerce and who are very successful entrepreneurs and doing very well. It's very exciting to see.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you.

The Conservative caucus has one minute.