Status of Women Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I have quite a few questions.

First of all, I'm very glad to see that the gap is narrowing, and from what I understand the statistics are showing, this is due in part to the types of work that women choose to do, the fact that they choose part-time work over full-time.

What I'm wondering is, because we want to look at the federal compensation act.... We've had some union representatives who are very unhappy with the fact that we have asked unions to take some responsibility at the onset of negotiating contracts. We want them to take some responsibility, along with the employer, for making sure that compensation is equitable. Are you finding from any of your studies that pay inequity happens because of peer discrimination, or is this changing because employers are better educated and employers are realizing that it's well worth paying women for the work they do, because they do a great job and they want to keep these women working? Are there any kinds of statistics on that?

[Cara Williams]

What we do know is that we can explain about 50% of the difference in earnings through observable factors, variables that we collect. Those would include, for example, years of experience. Women tend to have about 3.1 fewer years of experience. Even the kind of experience they have is very different. It's often part-time part-year or part-time full-year, whereas men's is full-year full-time. So we know that we can explain some of the difference that way.

We also know that the types of occupations make a difference. That can account for about 5% of the difference. Unionization rates are slightly lower for women. That can make up another 1% of that difference. But for 50% of that difference, we don't know. That is from unobservable factors.

One thing we didn't look at for that study was that when women work full-time, they often work fewer hours than men do. You're comparing full-time workers, but women, for example, work about 600 fewer hours per year than men do, even when you're looking at full-time workers.

So there are many things wrapped up in it, but we figure that we can explain about 50% of the gap, and the other 50% is caused by unexplainable variables, or at least variables that we didn't have.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Could we just ask—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you. You're at eight and a half minutes. You're way over.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Could we have that in writing?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Oh, yes, certainly. Could we have that in writing, then?

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you. That's all I was asking.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Okay.

Thank you very much for being here.

I assume that you're familiar with the Zhang report and its findings. On page 6 of that report, the author discusses employer discrimination against mothers. I wonder if you've done any studies to pursue that. It seems like a very serious situation for young women. Is there any data? Have you collected any information in regard to that to assess the level of discrimination as suggested by the report?

[Jane Badets]

I think we've said all along that there are a number of factors, and often these factors are interrelated, such as working part-time or working fewer hours, as well as the occupations and industries involved. That is what our research has looked at. That is what we have in our database. We have not asked a question, for example, on discrimination in some of these data sets, so we would not be able to determine that at all.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Okay.

In the course of your research, have you been able to determine the wage gap between women with children and women without children? For example, in Quebec, the cost of day care is subsidized. Does there seem to be a suggestion, then, first of all, about the wage gap and its depth and how subsidized day care may in fact close the gap?

[Cara Williams]

We do have information on the wage gap between women with children and women without children, and there is indeed a wage gap between them. I don't have the numbers with me, but we did a study a couple of months ago that examined that.

We didn't look at it at the provincial level to find out whether $7-a-day day care had any impact on it. It was looked at on the national level.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Okay. You said you did a study. Would that be available? Could you provide that information to the committee, please?

[Cara Williams]

Absolutely.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

I'd appreciate that, because I think there's information to be mined from this.

Now, you said that you look at Canadian statistics primarily. Have you any information about wage gaps between women with children and childless women in other countries where there is publicly funded child care? Have you done any of that comparative analysis to determine exactly where we stand in this country?

[Jane Badets]

There is none that I know of.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

There is none at all? Would you know where we could find that kind of information?

[Jane Badets]

I don't know. We'd have to talk to some of our colleagues at Statistics Canada to see what they would know, and see if they are maybe working with other colleagues in other countries using similar sorts of data that we have. A lot of our data has come from the labour force survey, and other countries do conduct similar sorts of surveys, so I'd have to check back with those colleagues.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

If that kind of information were available, I would very much appreciate seeing it. I think it would give us a bit of a broader sense of what happens to women with and without children. I would be interested to know what other countries are doing.

Statistics Canada reported that as of 2002-03, 54% of Canadian children six months to five years of age received care from someone other than a parent. If women with children are shown in almost every category to be paid lower wages than their childless counterparts, and certainly than men, their income would obviously be further compromised because of the costs incurred for child care.

So in terms of women with one child--we'll use that as the basis--do you have any information on what impact it has on their gross or net salary if child care is subsidized? Compare the unsubsidized versus the subsidized, in other words.

[Jane Badets]

I don't know if I have it linked up with child care, but we have some recent research that shows some earning differences between women with and without children. The results of that survey show that women with children earn about 12% less than women without children.

We also know that certainly the more time women take off, with the long career interruptions for motherhood, there is an impact on earnings in the longer term. We do know, though, that women entering motherhood later, after age 30, had higher incomes, I think, than women who had their children before 30.

Those are just some of the highlights of the research that has been done at Statistics Canada.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say, when we're looking at the fact that women with children earn 12% less, that the added cost of child care is quite a burden for them. It conceivably could create quite a burden for them.

[Jane Badets]

Well, we've presented the data. That's for those to decide on the....

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Yes, to glean that.

I'm almost out of time, and we need to do some other work in the committee. I want to test to see if we can stay longer, if everyone is willing to go to a three-minute round.

[An hon. member]

We have to stick with our time schedule.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

All right.

Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Do I have time?