Ms. Zarac.
Evidence of meeting #25 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was right.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #25 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was right.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
I think we're on the same wavelength. I think we know the needs are there. I don't understand Ms. Hoeppner's reaction, though, because for me the intent is the same, because both motions support first nations women living on reserve. That's the intent--to support them. Mrs. Neville's motion actually brings a concrete action for how we can support them. So I don't understand.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I'm very glad you asked that, because that is exactly the problem. What your government tried to do was actually hoist the bill that we want to try to get through as soon as possible. The attempt was to hoist it, which means that it would not be dealt with. In fact, Ms. Neville's motion calls for more of the same consultation and “let's talk”, which is great, but let's get this law in place first so that women will immediately have some protection. Unfortunately, Ms. Zarac, your government tried to hoist this so that women were not protected, under the guise of “let's have more consultation and more talking”. Let's get this fundamental protection in place immediately. This bill even makes provisions so that aboriginal groups can apply it to their specific situation and their conditions. That's why mine is different. Mine is calling on all of Parliament, because we have to work together to get it done. We can't just do it on our own.
12:55 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Madam Chair, I think everyone should take a deep breath.
Last week, when it came time to vote and when the matter was debated in the House, I also agreed that the issue should be referred to a committee for further consideration.
I subsequently received a telephone call from Ms. Beverley Jacobs and another one from Ms. Gabriel. They could not understand why we would support legislation like this when they had not even been consulted. These women speak for thousands of aboriginal women. It's incorrect to say that they do not represent thousands of aboriginal women, because they represents groups of...
I attend their meeting or their general assembly every year. The women in attendance represent many different aboriginal peoples and together they talk about their needs.
If they are here today telling us that they want to be consulted and that it's not enough for them to have a botched piece of legislation, then it has to mean that this bill fails to take their specific needs into account. Therein lies the problem. It is not that we do not want aboriginal women to have rights. We want these rights to take into account their specific needs.
The bill as drafted failed to do that. That was the biggest stumbling block, namely the fact that it did not take into account their specific needs.
We were supposed to have a briefing with the minister, Mr. Strahl, and twice that briefing was cancelled. I also think that there is a lack of good will somewhere.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Madam Chair, I want to compliment all the members around the table. It's evident to anybody who's new that there's a passion about the issue.
For Ms. Hoeppner to make an impassioned plea to get support for this is commendable, but you'll forgive me if I say that this is really a procedural question that someone is proposing. In the House, the government proposes and Parliament disposes. Parliament has considered a proposal of the government and said no.
I think in terms of committees, and perhaps you will get the clerk to research this position, what happens is that a committee can make a recommendation in its report, but I'm not sure it can, with a motion, compel Parliament, the House, to do anything.
So while it's a commendable expression of position and viewpoint, I think you will find that it is procedurally impossible to do. Unless someone wants to say that we want to have this as a recommendation as part of a report--that's not what this says--and the report in its entirety will be recommended to the House for the House to respond to within the usual 120 days, I don't think the committee procedurally can usurp the authority of the government by going to Parliament to impose, on itself, a decision that the government will then have to effect.
As I said, while I commend the principle behind the concept, it really might have great difficulty, procedurally, in passing anything. It eventually, I think, would be ruled out of order in the House itself.
It's better to accomplish the passing of an amendment--however it is subamended--to the motion that still conveys the principle and tells government and the House to come up with a different solution, or at least to address the procedural impediments that the debate in the House has put forward on the initial legislation.
That's my view.
1 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
I don't want to prolong this, but I do take exception to the comment that we're playing politics with the lives of women.
Madam Chair, anybody who knows me will know my position as it relates to aboriginal women on a whole host of issues. I want to be respectful of aboriginal women. I could make the allegation that this is politics of a different sort, but I'm not doing that.
I think one has to do it right, do it with respect, for aboriginal women. One could attach a timeline to this motion and say report back in x number of months, but any process going to Parliament, going on whatever, will be time-consuming.
You know, if we really cared about aboriginal women, we'd be providing houses for them. We'd be providing clean water for them. We'd be ensuring that their children had adequate education and a whole host of other issues. I'm not playing politics with this issue; I'm trying to show respect for aboriginal women--their concerns, their traditions--and being inclusive in it.
1 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Patricia Davidson
We still have some in camera business that has not been dealt with.
This will be placed at the beginning of the agenda for the next meeting. We don't want to run out of time for it again.
The meeting is adjourned.