Status of Women Committee on Oct. 6th, 2009

[Dominique La Salle]

We work mainly with the provincial and federal Departments of Finance. The Canada Pension Plan is jointly administered with the provinces. Changes to the CPP require the support of two-thirds of the provinces and two-thirds of the population. We talk with the provincial finance ministers and our department "delivers the goods".

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Mr. La Salle, were you able to determine the current cost of the basic needs basket for seniors?

[A voice]

The market basket measure, do you want to talk about that?

[Dominique La Salle]

Sure.

Before my colleague talks about this very interesting initiative, I would say that indexes are currently based on changes to the price index rate, as set by Statistics Canada. Our statistics on the poverty rate of seniors, which went from 20% in the 1980s to one of the best in the world, are based on a measure, referred to in English as the low income cut-off. But you referred to a different measure, and Thomas will tell you about it.

[Thomas Shepherd]

My group specifically is not the lead on the market basket measure. So if you had specific questions about how the basket is determined and so on, we could refer you to them, or they could—

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Could you send us the information?

[Thomas Shepherd]

Yes.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Okay, thank you very much.

Could you tell me how old the 14.3% of women living alone and under the low-income cutoff are? I suspect they are among the oldest, and therefore the most vulnerable and living in even more precarious circumstances.

[Thomas Shepherd]

The 14.3% represents all female seniors. However, the low-income rate is higher among women aged 80 and over.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Of the 2.5 million women receiving Old Age Security benefits, how many are receiving the CPP or the QPP? Is it 1.5 million, since 1.5 million women are receiving the Guaranteed Income Supplement, or is it less than that?

[Dominique La Salle]

The two do not necessarily intersect.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Exactly.

[Dominique La Salle]

The two do not necessarily intersect. We would need to come back with an analysis of this, but there is, nevertheless, a major overlap.

Furthermore, this overlap is growing, since women's participation in the labour market has increased. However, they have not necessarily retired.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Good.

I would like to tell you about a specific problem. Whenever there is an increase in Quebec, be it in the QPP or any pension plan, Ottawa cuts the Guaranteed Income Supplement. For example, when there was a $20 per month increase in Quebec, the Guaranteed Income Supplement decreased by $40 per month. Individuals are even poorer than they were before Quebec handed out an increase.

Since you work in cooperation with the provincial governments, is there no way to work together to avoid such trauma for individuals who are becoming poorer and who are having trouble making ends meet?

In my riding, some people are crying because they do not have anything to eat. We are taking up collections to feed them. We are talking about individuals aged 80 and older. It is very sad, and we wonder what needs to be done to ensure the government can fix this problem. Clearly, it needs to be able to intervene.

[Dominique La Salle]

The Guaranteed Income Supplement is based on income. We exclude Old Age Security benefits and look at other income.

The attrition rate or reduction rate is not 100%. The example you gave of someone getting a $40 increase and being subject to a $40 cut is not exactly true. The cut is equal to half or 50%.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

It is cut by over twice as much!

[Dominique La Salle]

No.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I am telling you, I have seen people's cheques.

[Dominique La Salle]

There must be other factors involved because the Guaranteed Income Supplement is subject to a 50% cut. If you earn $1 more, you lose 50 ¢.

This kind of situation means that, the program, which costs $32 billion per year...

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Did you say $32 billion?

[Dominique La Salle]

Yes, it is a lot of money. Benefits awarded under Old Age Security or the Guaranteed Income Supplement are based on an income assessment.

You referred to an interesting aspect, that of integrating our programs with provincial ones. Clearly, there is work to do in this area, for example, in information sharing.

We provide the provinces with information about individuals who may qualify for the Guaranteed Income Supplement, low-income earners, so that the provinces can, if they so wish, use that information to qualify individuals for provincial programs. It would be good to have information from the provinces in order to determine, for example, who is receiving social assistance.

We are talking about it, but it is not automatic.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Could I send you these individuals' applications?

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Madam Demers, thank you.

Mr. Van Kesteren.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for appearing before us. It has been very informative already: $32 billion per year, the program costs.

My questions centre around those older women. I see that rate is declining, and I'm glad to see that, but I guess I think about my mother, who passed away two years ago in her 88th year. She was one of that generation who raised a large family, never “worked”—I say that with quotation marks—in the workforce, but spent her life raising a family and of course made a huge contribution, I think, to society too.

I guess I want to ask those questions. I would like to begin by asking, if we were to take the situation of an individual, of a lady, possibly, who's in her seventies, eighties, or nineties, do we have a way to compare today how they would rate? Are we moving forward? Are we providing more benefits for them? Or are they slipping?

That's my first question.

[Thomas Shepherd]

So are we providing more benefits generally to older women over time?