One might not be in poverty and one might be. I think we all know right now that there are a lot of senior women who've stayed home and raised their children. They were thinking there would be enough in their husband's pension and somehow it would just be taken care of. I think the fact is that women are a lot more educated now.
We had a professor testify that things have changed quite drastically in the last 10 years, so we have a problem right now with senior women—many of whom are widows—who need help. I don't think the pension program necessarily today can help them unless we create one that is more like a social program, where we could increase benefits and it would become more of a social program. But I think we also want to look forward and consider how we make sure women in the future have an adequate pension.
Some of the things you refer to... Here's what I can't get my head around. Many of those things are life choices. Sometimes, for example, staying home with the child definitely is a choice for a woman. She decides she wants to do it. When they make that decision, maybe she and her husband say, because they're not having her income, what they will do is reduce his income by contributing to a spousal RRSP, or they might put money away. They make a conscious decision to stay home. How do we then recognize the value they are placing and the value they are giving to our society by staying home, but at the same time not take away from people who say they won't stay home and will put their children in child care? Now we're taking their tax money, their tax dollars, and giving it to the woman who stays home.
Do you follow what I'm saying? I'm going to change it now. Another life choice is divorce. There are so many different examples of why people would get a divorce, but many times it is a choice, and it really does cost a lot of money. There's the financial implication. Again, we have individuals who are paying their taxes and working hard and all those things, and maybe they don't get a divorce, but now we're using their income to help supplement people who have gotten a divorce.
I'm wondering how we look at women right now who are under the poverty line, who are widows. They need our help, so that's one part of it. Maybe that's the OAS, which you referred to, Mr. Baldwin. But looking forward, how do we not punish and make people pay for other people's decisions, whether it's staying home to raise their children or getting a divorce?