Status of Women Committee on Dec. 1st, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Patty.

I think the time is up. We've finished with the round of questions.

Before I thank the witnesses, there is one thing I would like to ask of the witnesses, and it follows up on Mr. Van Kesteren's question.

Do you think there should be some kind of legislation brought in that would penalize in some way companies that have, as you say, spent the pension plan money on assets, etc.? Secondly, do you think it would stop this from happening if private pension funds that are now run by particular companies for their workers were actually given to an independent third party to manage those funds--so it was hived out of the company? Will those two things help?

The third question is this. You talked about something that most people have not talked about, which is of great concern to me, and that is the fact that many people who have not been in the paid workforce tend to have nothing to depend on when they retire but OAS and sometimes GIS--and hopefully some sort of survivor benefit if they were married.

Those three things I would like a quick answer on, Patty, because then I have to go for it.

[Patty Ducharme]

You like saying to me, “A quick answer”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I know, I do.

[Patty Ducharme]

Yes, I think there should be a strong legislative framework for pensions and for private plans.

I'm a trustee on a private plan, and I know I have to do training. Our plan is audited. We have an actuarial report that's filed with Revenue Canada on a regular basis. The trustees of that plan take those responsibilities very, very seriously.

If we were not taking those responsibilities seriously and the plan was unable to make good on its commitments to fulfill the promises made, and it was because we had been irresponsible or frivolous with the funds, I think that criminal charges are completely reasonable. It's theft.

With respect to your question about unpaid labour, I really believe that people who have been home caregivers in society should have a basic pension independent of a spousal benefit. Quite frankly, you could find yourself in an unpleasant domestic situation where you've been a caregiver and you have an abusive family member or an abusive spouse. I wouldn't want to see a person have to live with that person or be obligated to, if at a certain point in their life they decide it's time to leave such a hostile environment.

I'm sorry, I don't remember your third question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I asked you three, but I think you answered the two-in-one question, which was about taking private pensions and hiving them off into a separate trusteeship so they don't stay within the companies' coffers. That's what I asked. I think you answered that.

[Patty Ducharme]

It has to be funded. It has to be separate from the books. It can't be part of your corporate.... There has to be a separate entity that's your pension fund, and it has to be funded.

Let's just look at what's gone on with Nortel with the self-funded disability. This was the richest company in Canada. To suggest that those workers who are now on disability should fund Nortel is shameless and despicable. Those people contributed to that company and its success, and the fact that they're now poor with no access to funds is completely unacceptable in today's society.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you so much, Patty. As always, you answer your questions clearly and with strength.

Thank you very much, Ms. Marquis, for coming.

[Patty Ducharme]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right, it's exactly five o'clock, and the first thing on the agenda is the motion by Ms. McLeod.

I would like us to be succinct on this motion, because I would like to present to you not problems, but challenges we're going to have within the next three meetings with regard to some things we had planned to do, just to see if you have any solutions for it.

The first thing is Ms. McLeod's motion:

That the committee call on officials from the Ministries of Public Safety, Health, Justice, and the Status of Women, as well as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, to discuss programs, policies, and action currently being undertaken to address violence against aboriginal women.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Can I speak, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

First of all, I know we have a busy time up to December and we are also committed to doing the Olympic piece, so I am not talking about doing this until the new year. Doing that update before the Olympics is a priority, but we haven't actually had a discussion on this issue, at least since my time in this group. I'm not saying let's do a study. I'm saying at least let's find out from our public agencies what's being done.

I'm not trying to hijack our agenda or the very important work that we've done in any way, but this is an important issue, and I would feel more comfortable having these witnesses come to talk to us.

Again, it's not imminent, it's....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

And you see this as one meeting?

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Well, I think, again, in respect to not hijacking the agenda of the plan we've already made....

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay, now Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

I support Ms. McLeod's idea totally, and I have an amendment to her motion. I think it's a little bit lengthy to be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Is it a friendly one? Do you think she—

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I think it's too lengthy to be a friendly one, but let me read it and see what she says:

That the committee call on officials from the Ministries of Public Safety, Health, Justice, Indian and Northern Affairs, and the Status of Women, as well as the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, to discuss programs, policies, and action currently being undertaken to address violence against aboriginal women; and that the committee further invite, but is not limited to, representatives of NWAC, the AFN Women's Council, the Métis National Council of Women, Pauktuutit, the Quebec Native Women's Association, the Native Women's Association of the NWT, the YWCA, along with individual advocates on the issue of violence against aboriginal women, including but not limited to Sharon McIvor, Ellen Gabriel, Bev Jacobs, Mavis Erikson, and Debra Hanuse.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

All right, thank you.

Cathy.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Obviously that isn't a friendly amendment because it's really changing things from a blip to a pretty comprehensive study. I think we need to have discussion around the table. Are we wanting to engage in a comprehensive discussion, as opposed to the blip?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay, so let's discuss the amendment on the table.

Yes, Nicole.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Madam Chair, I am very happy, I find this is an excellent idea.

I had previously asked that we study this because aboriginal women are subjected to a lot of violence. I am very happy that various departments are being asked to come and explain what they have done and what the various interested parties are doing. We should also hear from people from the various aboriginal communities. I am sure that actions are undertaken in aboriginal communities for the prevention of violence against women that we are not aware of.

So we could get a real comprehensive picture but this would require more than one meeting. One meeting is really too short. We could only get a quick overview but I believe that this deserves a more in-depth study. It is a very good idea.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Is there anyone else wanting to discuss this?

Yes, Dave.

[Dave Van Kesteren, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON]

I was very pleased when I heard that this motion was being put forward.

I think Candice, if she were here, might have that, or Cathy might have that, but here is just a perfect example. This is an article in the Winnipeg Free Press, and it's on B10: “Police seek help to find teen girl”. This is an aboriginal girl. The fact that this is found in the back of the paper is sad. It's time, and I think this would really be a great thing that we could set out to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Are you therefore speaking for or against the amendment? It sounds as though you're speaking in favour of it.