Status of Women Committee on March 3rd, 2009

[Sylvie Michaud]

Yes, we do have the figures. According to the 2007 survey, 721,000 individuals had contributed to employment insurance: 446,000 men and 275,000 women. The breakdown in the number of individuals receiving benefits is as follows: 269,000 men and 153,000 women. In other words, 66% of men who had contributed to the plan received benefits, while the figure for women was 56%.

As Geoff said, the main difference has to do with the number of people who contributed to the plan. The number of people who did not contribute is higher among women than among men.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Demers.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here today, Mr. Bowlby and Ms. Michaud.

Usually you publish an excellent report on the status of women in Canada every five years. Can we look forward to getting such a report soon?

Ms. Michaud, when you appeared before the committee in the context of our study on the economic security of women, you were asked whether the statistics on unemployment could be collected differently, to take into account individuals receiving welfare, those that were not eligible because of their assets, and those who had stopped looking for employment.

What has been done about this?

[Sylvie Michaud]

The report on the status of women is generally a cost-recovery project. At the moment, we are looking for partners so that we can produce this report again.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

It is usually an excellent report.

[Sylvie Michaud]

We tried to put up some key statistics on Statistics Canada's website on an ongoing basis, so that there would always be an update on four key indicators. I cannot make any guarantees about a fourth report.

There are different ways of producing statistics on unemployment rates. As regards the type of information you are requesting, we did not do a survey on financial security. We were unable to provide more details, because of the size of the sample used for the existing financial security survey.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

That means that at the moment the unemployment figures do not reflect the people who are not receiving a cheque, people who have stopped looking for a job and people on welfare. Is that correct?

[Geoff Bowlby]

Do you mind if I respond in English?

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

No, that is all right.

[Geoff Bowlby]

They're independent things. The Labour Force Survey is the official source of the unemployment statistics you hear about every month. We ask people whether or not they have jobs. If they don't have jobs, were they looking for work and were they available to take jobs? Regardless of whether you're on employment insurance or some sort of social assistance, if you fit those criteria you're unemployed. So it's measured independently.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I will now turn the floor over to Johanne, Madam Chair.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

The chart on page 2 shows fluctuations in the new unemployment rate. We know, for example, that there was an economic recession between 1982 and 1984. There are obviously reasons for the high unemployment rate. In recent years, we see that it has been in free fall.

Do these statistics take into account that as of 1995, the act was amended and became the Employment Insurance Act?

Does the fact that the calculations are now based on the number of hours worked rather than the number of weeks worked mean that women are less eligible for EI?

[Geoff Bowlby]

No.

[Sylvie Michaud]

I do not think so.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You did not collect the statistics any differently when the program was changed in 1995, and as a result the situation looks good, the unemployment rate is very low. On the other hand, this could also be explained by the fact that weeks are no longer used, but rather the number of hours worked in determining benefits.

[Geoff Bowlby]

We know that there is an impact on employment insurance data. We can see that the statistics tend to change because of changes to the plan. However, the unemployment rates presented here are not connected to the employment insurance plan. This measurement of the unemployment rate does not take into account the number of people on EI. This chart does not show any impact.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I would like to talk about the chart on welfare. I do not know where you got your figures for this chart, but I do not think it reflects what is really happening. It probably reflects the situation in Quebec.

What data did you use in establishing the statistics on the labour market versus social assistance or welfare?

[Sylvie Michaud]

The statistics on welfare come from income tax data. It is a combination of data for individuals and families. We took the data we had, but in an ideal world, we would have used only the individual data. A family is made up of at least two people. A lone parent family includes at last one adult and one child. It is possible that the number of individuals may be greater in the case of a family where there is a couple. If we have time and if you are interested, we could see whether we could do another calculation using data for individuals. We did not have to do that for today's presentation.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Hoeppner.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for coming. This is very interesting.

I'd like to go back to something you said a couple of moments ago. So if we take men and women who pay into the EI system and compare the outcomes, they are relatively equal. Is that what you're telling us, that women collect EI at the same rate as men? Can you explain that a little more regarding men and women who are paying into EI and collecting benefits?

[Geoff Bowlby]

What I was referring to earlier was the number and share of unemployed women who did not accumulate enough hours to be eligible for EI. So there are some people who don't get EI because they don't have enough hours.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Right, but of the women who do have enough hours?

[Geoff Bowlby]

Yes. In 2007 there were 39,000 women in that situation. There were 59,000, almost 60,000 men in that same situation. There are more men who are unemployed, so if you look at that 39,000 as the share of all women who were unemployed, it's the same as the share for men. About 9% of unemployed women have worked but didn't accumulate enough hours to receive EI, and that's the same as the share of the unemployed men.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

My other question has to do with one of the approaches that are used. My understanding is that the Employment Insurance Commission uses several measures to monitor and report on access to EI. One of them is the BU ratio. Now, my concern, again from my understanding--and I would like to hear what you have to say on it--is that it's not necessarily completely accurate because it takes into account basically everybody, not necessarily those who have worked and who have paid in.

Can you explain a little more for us how that works and who uses that system? Is it accurate? For this committee, which really wants to study EI and the impact on women—and I really appreciate the information you've provided on a host of issues—I'd like to see us really focus on EI and get the accurate information regarding that program. In relation to the BU ratio, can you explain that a little further?