Status of Women Committee on March 10th, 2009

[Allen Sutherland, Director General, Labour Market Policy, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

As Paul mentioned, gender-based analysis is mainstreamed into all our policy developments. For instance, in the labour market we would do a gender-based analysis as part of good public policy assessment. In addition, we have a group that is devoted to gender-based analysis in our strategic planning and research group. They're nested in with our medium-term policy planning as well as some of our cabinet planning.

Then in addition to that, as part of making sure that gender-based analysis is integral to our assessments as a whole, we have a devoted training program. We've had some 219 analysts undertake gender-based analysis. It's a two-day program. It's part of our orientation; it's part of our policy development guide. It's integral to all the work. For us, for instance, just a simple example is getting prepared for this session when we found out late last week that we were going to appear before you. We didn't have to develop new analysis. It was a case of collating some of the work that we'd already done.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Except you can't give us the gender-based analysis because you say it's embedded.

[Allen Sutherland]

Yes.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

And yet you also say you don't have disaggregated figures on a regional basis. So how valid can a gender-based analysis be in terms of the impact?

[Paul Thompson]

It's just the way the information is displayed in the monitoring and assessment report. The gender issues have been looked at in various ways. We just have to confirm whether it's done on a regional basis and by gender at the same time. It's not something we've displayed in our report. We would have the capability of generating that, though.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

We know that all women, whether they're full-time or part-time employees, pay into the EI program, but we also know that a part-time employee does not have the same benefits as a full-time employee. Do you look at that? Do you comment on that? Do you make recommendations on that?

[Paul Thompson]

I guess there are a number of differences in terms of part-time versus full-time. I don't know if you're referring to the benefit level or the entry requirements into the EI program.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Both of which are discriminatory at some level.

[Paul Thompson]

They both operate on the insurance principle, so the amount of work experience that you have and the level of earnings are what drives your benefit level. That's a fundamental principle of that.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Do you comment on that insurance piece? Do you make recommendations on that insurance piece, on the fact that there should be modifications to it, that there should be some adaptation for it, both on a regional basis and on a gender basis? I understand it's an insurance scheme with parameters that are identified. Do you make recommendations that those parameters should be changed?

[Paul Thompson]

One of the areas we've been looking at very closely in the context of the downturn is more on the entry requirements and the duration of benefits, because that's a policy issue that's very much at the forefront these days. That's where quite a bit of regional adjustment happens. I referred to the variable entry requirements. On a monthly basis, as the unemployment situation changes, it's easier to get into the EI program. The number of hours required drops by 35 hours for each 1% increase in the unemployment rate. So the access to EI automatically adjusts with changes in the economic conditions. So that's something we've been looking at.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Have you done a gender-based analysis on the impact of these changes?

[Paul Thompson]

One of the issues we've looked at is that the economic downturn seems to be affecting men more than women at this point. A disproportionate number of men in the goods and manufacturing sectors are experiencing--

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

But they're full-time employees.

[Allen Sutherland]

Perhaps I could comment on that.

So far, if you look at the path of the recession, most of the jobs lost have been full-time.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Quite often, when we have just two presenters and you ask questions and the answers are longer, I let it go. I don't always keep you to seven minutes, because the idea is to get the information and the answers you require. So sometimes I let you go to eight minutes, etc. It works out in the wash, so don't worry about it.

Ms. Deschamps.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen.

I have a lot of questions to ask you about your presentation. I view it from a very different perspective than the presentations of other witnesses we have previously heard from as part of the study. I have a question along the same lines as Ms. Neville, concerning statistics and priorities.

How often do you adjust the rate for each region? How is that done?

[Paul Thompson]

It's done on a monthly basis. Statistics Canada monitors the labour market, and we receive their data every month. Then we make changes to program parameters.

[Louis Beauséjour]

It's a moving average of the last three months observed.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

You mentioned the economic crisis. There have been a lot of job losses in sectors mainly occupied by men, but I'd like to stand back a little further. I'm from a single-industry region that depended on the forest industry. We're really feeling the wave that's directly hitting jobs, workers, but also employment sectors occupied by women, particularly the service sector. There is an impact: working hours are being cut back, there is a deep economic slowdown. I wanted to know how you take into account, in the regions, job losses among men, jobs that women occupy in the service sector and the fact that there is a crisis. There is an exodus. People are heading to the major centres and joining the labour force.

I also want to go back to the program that was established to assist older workers leaving their jobs. Where I'm from, two out of 1,500 workers managed to qualify for that program. I wonder whether the program really meets the expectations of workers in my region who have held a job for 40 or 50 years. They won't be able to retrain; there are no other industries.

[Paul Thompson]

As regards the need to target older workers, this is a program that is offered in close cooperation with the provinces. They suggest the priorities and specific projects. There are eligibility criteria. Participants are usually over 55 years of age, but that's not rigid, it's not strict; there is a little flexibility. As I mentioned, approximately 50% of program participants are women, and there is an increase in funding as well. I imagine there will be better access in future with greater flexibility and more funding for the program.

As regards the other aspects of employment insurance—

[Louis Beauséjour]

Other programs also assist single-industry communities. There are the transition funds for the communities, among other things, which are administered in close cooperation with the provinces, I believe. Then there is the Strategic Training and Transition Fund, implemented under the budget, that will also provide funding for training people, those who qualify for employment insurance and those who do not. Then they'll be able to get money for training and to be directed to other industries and be prepared for when the economic situation improves. They'll be better prepared to return to the labour market at that time.

[Paul Thompson]

I'd like to add that this point is very important. The rules are very flexible. This isn't limited to employment insurance eligibility. It's much more flexible to make it possible to accept self-employed workers, and so on.

[Johanne Deschamps, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

We on the committee heard from Mr. Richard Shillington, a statistician and mathematician by training. I don't know whether that name rings a bell for you. He came to make a presentation and painted a somewhat more sombre picture of the system in its present form. He emphasized some things and I entirely agree with him because I'm seeing them in my region. I'm experiencing them back home. You're presenting a framework that follows from a national plan, with figures relating to the number of applications. That's different, and I don't recognize my region. I'm not the only person in this case. You're presenting us with an overall picture, but it's somewhat more the picture of the major centres. I don't sense that the problems the regions are currently experiencing are clearly defined.