Evidence of meeting #14 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lot.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
My thanks to all of you for coming here.
Ms. Compton, just for my own clarification, and maybe you said it and I didn't hear, is Minwaashin Lodge in an urban setting?
4:25 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
Yes, we're right here in Ottawa.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
You're right here, okay. Then my questions are to you and to Mr. Saulis particularly.
I am wondering if either or both of you can comment, and perhaps you, Ms. Mann, as well, on the impact of the movement back and forth from first nations communities to the urban setting and what impact that does or does not have on violence against aboriginal women. If it does, who picks up the support?
4:25 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
Well, a lot of people coming from the reserve experience culture shock. When they come to a big urban city, they're lost and oftentimes there's no safe place for women. So they come to our centre and then they're welcome. They see other women practising their culture and identity, so they feel safe and they start to open up. Basically, it's culture shock.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Does the movement back and forth—I'm from Manitoba and have experienced much—from community to the urban setting contribute to exacerbating violence in any way?
4:25 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
They don't have stabilized housing when they come here. There are a lot of issues they have to deal with to get settled in. So yes, they are at a high risk of violence. Oftentimes, if they don't connect with the service, they'll connect with another element, and then they can go down that path. We're hoping they'll check in with us first. The friendship centre is another point of entry.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Policy Director, National Association of Friendship Centres
There are several things. First of all, coming from a first nations community, a Métis community, or even an Inuit community to an urban setting, whether it's Ottawa, Vancouver, Montreal, or you name it, for a young woman, a teenage girl, maybe with a couple of children, it is, as Irene said, culture shock. They're not prepared. They don't know where to go.
Luckily, in 120 places at least, there's a friendship centre that they're probably aware of and can go to for some help and guidance. However, a lot of times, maybe they don't know about the friendship centre and they end up on the street, which is what Michelle has been talking about. They get involved with the wrong crowd. They get involved with prostitution, drugs, and the whole sex trade. In the end, they become victims.
It is not because of their own wanting or doing. A lot of times, in the first place, they are probably running away from their home community because of similar kinds of violence. They want to get away from that, and they think the city may be a haven. Sadly, they then realize that the city is not necessarily a haven.
Unfortunately or fortunately, whichever way you want to look at it, we know.... We attended the World Urban Forum in March and we learned that, not only in Canada, urbanization is increasing around the world. More people are moving to the urban setting for a number of reasons. For aboriginal people in Canada it's the same thing. The statistics show this from 2001 to 2006. It has gone from 49% in 2001 to 54% in 2006.
I think the other thing is the jurisdictional issue in Canada, between federal and provincial governments. There really needs to be some kind of coming together, because at the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues last week, the Canadian government representative reported that Canada spends $10 billion to support aboriginal programming. We can tell you, and you know as well as I do, where the lion's share of that money goes. It's not to support aboriginal people who live in urban centres.
I'm not going to say that it's a them or us kind of thing, but the issues on reserve and in Métis communities are very serious and very important to the people living there. The attention of federal and provincial governments, whether it's the policies, programs, or commitments....
Sorry, I might be going on too long here. I apologize for going on too long.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you. That's it, Ms. Neville.
Ms. Wong for the Conservatives, go ahead, please.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
And thank you very much for coming over. I came from the Lower Mainland area of Vancouver, so I probably know the challenges out there.
I have a couple of questions.
I applaud Ms. Irene Compton for rising up from the ashes. She came through the same kinds of challenges, and yet here she is, representing that community and doing some very positive things. I really have to applaud her for the effort. She should be a model for anybody who had to leave the reserve for whatever reason to go into an urban city.
You don't have to take the path of being a prostitute. That's my message. There should be some ways of getting these poor women away from that so-called sex trade and then giving them a safe haven to stand up again with dignity. Going into that trade again and giving them whatever facilities they need doesn't solve the problem, because there will still be exploitation, and there will still be violence against women out there.
There should also be initiatives helping those women get away from such an awful environment. Ms. Mann, I don't know whether your study has ever covered that area.
4:30 p.m.
Lawyer and Consultant, As an Individual
I'm certainly in agreement that prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say. There should absolutely be prevention programs. But in this case, as we've talked about today, the causes are so far-reaching that prevention isn't like building a new basketball court or something; it's about remedying centuries of the impacts of dehumanizing aboriginal women, impacts on their roles within their communities, and the impacts on aboriginal communities. I agree that prevention is a wonderful thing, but I don't think it will be totally effective, in the sense that you're going to eradicate street sex trade with prevention.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
But what I mean is that you give them training and help them go into other areas of work, instead of saying, “Okay, you stay there and swim or survive.”
It's also scary to think about decriminalization of the sex trade or prostitution, because the next step would be legalization and I don't think we should do that. We could get into a whole debate on that issue. But I don't think that's a way to help those poor women who will keep being exploited wherever they are. I think the best way is probably to help them with all the social services, even when they are in that trade, and help them get away from that. Give them real skills and help them.
I want to talk to the two people here who are helping their own people. Is that an area you might be involved in--because it's urban, right?
4:35 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
We have a project here called STORM, to assist sex trade workers. Basically we accept them wherever they are in their journey. It's non-judgmental, so we provide some basic programming and a place to come for coffee. We've partnered with Centre espoir Sophie here in Ottawa. We give them some healthy safe sex information and then kind of slip in that there's culture programming over here at Minwaashin Lodge. That's how we do it.
We go right to where it's happening and offer help. Eventually women start taking an interest and asking questions. Then we escort them over to Minwaashin Lodge and get them involved. Basically, that's our approach to assisting sex trade workers.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Alice Wong Conservative Richmond, BC
Does it mean they prefer to stay in that trade, or do they actually want to get away from it?
4:35 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
I think sometimes they feel they don't have a choice. They have a lot of internalized fear and shame. For a lot of them, of course, the big thing is addiction--drug abuse and substance abuse. They're stuck in that cycle. Their pimps are controlling them. There's a whole lot of violence involved with sex trade workers.
We're not here to judge them but to assist them and give them alternatives. We can be successful in that. We have a small program right now, but it certainly could grow into something more.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry
Thank you, Ms. Compton.
Thank you, Ms. Wong.
Now we'll go to Madame Demers for the Bloc.
4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you for being here today.
Ms. Compton, your story is both sad and shocking, but you are a symbol of resilience and hope for all women. Thank you for sharing this story with us. I think you should share it with a wider audience to help people understand aboriginal women are just like all other women in Quebec and Canada.
Ms. Mann, we met a few years ago when a subcommittee was examining prostitution. You took part in these proceedings. I can see things did not change a whole lot in the last few years. You want to decriminalize the prostitute and not prostitution. You want to make sure she is not stigmatized, that she is not necessarily put into jail, and that she does not have to go through the same ordeal of going to prison and then come out and do the same thing again. We have seen that in countries where the prostitute was decriminalized and the clients were criminalized, women in this trade had even more serious problems.
I wonder whether it would be possible for women in risky or even very dangerous situations to go to places like friendship centres or the shelter you are running, Ms. Compton. You were getting money from the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, but this money has be transferred to the health department. Did you ask for some funds from this department in order to be able to keep the programs you were providing with the money from the foundation? You said the money is now in the health department. You could perhaps access these funds.
I would also like to know what your feather means.
4:35 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
The feather is to help me to speak. It was given to me from an elder so that I would have courage and confidence and a voice.
4:35 p.m.
Manager, Cultural Program, Minwaashin Lodge
Did you want me to answer that question?
From what I understand, there's no recourse for the Aboriginal Healing Foundation funding. I'm not aware that it was transferred over to Health Canada. If that's the case, we certainly will be applying for funding from them.
4:40 p.m.
Bloc
Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC
Mr. Saulis, what do you think of this situation? It did not change since 1999. There are still 54% of aboriginal women attacked, raped or killed. Why is there no change? What are we doing wrong?
4:40 p.m.
Policy Director, National Association of Friendship Centres
It's probably a lack of serious attention to the issues that aboriginal women are finding themselves in, in Canada; not enough support from governments—federal, provincial, and municipal—to provide, to continue to support places like Minwaashin Lodge, which are there to provide that kind of support. Friendship centres are out there to provide cultural programming, and support services as well.
Why hasn't it changed? I guess we're all asking the same question ourselves, and when will things change? We know there are bits and pieces and little chunks of money here and there to support this kind of project or that kind of project, but there's no continuity in funding. Project funding is different from program funding. We need program funding that is A-based, that comes every year through whatever federal or provincial department is going to administer it, so that Irene and others across the country—