Status of Women Committee on April 28th, 2010

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I would presume that the $16 million is sort of evenly distributed. Does anything core come out of that $16 million? Is it basically the skeleton and you go out and find out what you can do?

[Conrad Saulis]

That is the core funding. That is the skeleton. We call it a skeleton because it is a skeleton. That $16 million has been frozen since 1996. The friendship centres program has not had an increase in funding since 1996, and we are at 2010. It is putting a major strain on friendship centres, because the dollars are just not as effective. A lot of them are feeling the financial pinch, definitely.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

My next question would be for Ms. Compton. It sounds as if you have a number of different programs. I'm sure that they've all had evaluations in terms of effectiveness.

Can you tell me about the one you're most proud of?

[Irene Compton]

I can say that the culture program is the most important, because when women learn about their identity and their purpose, and they do their healing, they can start giving back to their communities.

The basic foundation of our healing is our culture, because everything we need is in our culture. That is the beginning point for most women who walk in our door.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

That's something that's offered to everyone who walks in the door.

[Irene Compton]

Yes. Often women come to our centre because they've been shamed into not identifying as aboriginal because of the intergenerational impact of the residential schools. They come in not knowing anything. Their grandmothers never said anything to them about being aboriginal.

They find support from other sisters at the centre, and then they start on their journey of identity, and they really evolve.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Would they come in all day every day, or for a couple of hours once a week? I'm just trying to understand....

[Irene Compton]

We have day programming. We have a lot of program calendars. We have a great website, if you ever want to check it out. We start with every stage of life, from the children to the teenagers to the adults to the grandmothers. We offer programs and services for every stage of life. We offer counselling for sexual abuse, trauma, and addictions. We cover the spectrum of the impacts of violence.

We are going into our 18th year now. We have developed a lot of best practices in that time.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

My last question, if I have time, would be for Ms. Mann. You talked about one suggestion in terms of legislation. I know that we have a private member's bill on human trafficking, which I believe is in the Senate now. Are there any other pieces of legislation...? You talked about one that was really important. Are there additional suggestions you would make about a legislative agenda that would beneficial? Are there additional things?

[Michelle Mann]

Well, the big picture.... An area of expertise I work in is aboriginal corrections and the justice system. When you talk about violence against aboriginal women, there is the much bigger picture of community breakdown and violence within the community, which then, of course, is showing itself in corrections. Recognizing that aboriginal women are the victims of violence and recognizing the context, it's also important to note that, in terms of corrections, they are highly overrepresented as offenders in the federal system. They're also highly overrepresented in the commission of violent crime, which of course is not to suggest that aboriginal women are inherently more violent, but that there's a bigger picture there. I don't want to say a culture of violence, but there's a community breakdown as a result of the factors that have been talked about: residential schools, colonialism, and some of the Indian Act provisions.

With respect to corrections, I definitely think that offering adequate programming and trying to deal with the root causes and rehabilitating offenders, who are often going back to their communities--because the reality is that most offenders are coming out--is actually an important part of the agenda of dealing with violence in aboriginal communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. That's it.

Now for the NDP. Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you very much for coming here and sharing your expertise. I'm hoping to ask questions of everyone.

Ms. Mann, you were talking about the fact that aboriginal women are overrepresented in correctional institutions, and I'm hoping we're going to hear from the correctional investigator, because I've gone through his report. You've indicated expertise--

[Michelle Mann]

I think I did that report myself, actually.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Well, then, I have the right woman.

You talked about the fact that women offenders can be placed in management protocol if involved in an incident that jeopardizes the safety of others and herself. In reading about this protocol, it seemed quite punitive and not delivering the kind of support or help that was needed. Could you elaborate on that?

[Michelle Mann]

The management protocol is comparable, I think, to the secure units for men. It's a sort of status within corrections, and it's used as a punitive measure against women who are considered a threat or are consistently acting out. It's a most extreme form of segregation. There's no access to programming and little access to spiritual services when a woman is put on the management protocol. She has to actually work her way off it. I don't carry statistics in my head, but I actually just finished writing a report on aboriginal women in federal corrections. Not a lot of women have been on it, but I think it was in March 2009 that three out of four women on it were aboriginal, or something like that. Not very many women have been able to work themselves off it.

Three out of four women being aboriginal is a shocking number. Aboriginal women, right now, are one in three of federal female offenders, but, still, the three in four statistic, I think, is an indicator of a system not meeting their needs, at the least, if not perhaps systemic discrimination.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So this whole notion of tough on crime is leaving women more broken than helping them.

[Michelle Mann]

Certainly, incarcerating people for longer periods of time, if in fact the programming is not available to rehabilitate them, is definitely counter-productive.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

Mr. Saulis, you made mention of the fact that the violence that women face includes choking, beating, and the use of guns. I'm wondering how pervasive the use of guns is. Have you any statistics or idea, or anecdotal information, about that? Is this a more urban or rural kind of reality?

[Conrad Saulis]

I wish I had some statistics to be able to support it, other than what I've read from the sources I found. Is it something more urban than rural? Again, I really can't provide any more clarification on that. I apologize.

What your questions bring up, though, and what they provide me with is the opportunity to lead into the lack of knowledge and information Canada has about the lives of urban aboriginal people.

I'll bring you back to last summer, when we were all in the midst of the H1N1 crisis. At this point last year, the Public Health Agency of Canada wanted to identify the priority lists of who would be vaccinated first, and we participated in those conference calls with them. We put it to them that they could not make an informed decision about urban aboriginal people because there is no health information or very little urban health information about the lives of urban aboriginal people. There's some here and there, but there really isn't anything that Canada can really say describes it. The majority of it is conjecture from what is known about first nations living on reserve.

We know a lot about first nations living on reserve, but describing the health and life conditions...there are bits and pieces here and there, but nothing consistent. So your question brings me to that lack of information.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Compton, we've heard from a lot of witnesses, and I think on Monday the Department of Justice and INAC were in. I wanted to touch on the whole issue of the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, and the responsibility for it being transferred to INAC and Health Canada.

I tried to understand what it was they could do that community services like yours could not do. Have you any concerns about the work that you and others began around the Aboriginal Healing Foundation being lost or falling through the cracks because it's being administered more bureaucratically?

[Irene Compton]

Well, since the Aboriginal Healing Foundation closed, there's no recourse for funding to keep these programs going, so a lot of us are left up in the air with that. We're hoping that something's going to come down the tubes, some kind of strategy or something to keep those programs going. There were a lot of healing programs provided. That's what our people need in dealing with trauma and its fallout.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Can you describe those healing programs?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 20 seconds, so if the description can occur in 20 seconds, go ahead.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

If I have another round, perhaps we can get back to it at that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you.

Now we have a five-minute round, which, again, is the same as the seven-minute round, in that it contains questions and answers.

For the Liberals we have Ms. Anita Neville.