Status of Women Committee on May 26th, 2010

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

First of all, let me be clear. We're very concerned about rape being used as a weapon of war. We support the United Nations position that rape is considered a war crime and I think, for me, it's disastrous that such things would occur.

We do support providing services and support of those who become victims of such atrocious crimes. In fact, CIDA funds a sexual violence project in the Congo, on which we're working with three UN agencies. We've helped over 36,000 victims with health care services in post-exposure--I'm not a doctor like Dr. Bennett, who I saw earlier--prophylaxis, fistula repair, and they were treated for sexually transmitted infections. In addition to that, we provide them with psychosocial care, because in many cases they're rejected by their families and their partners. We try to help them reintegrate into life. This is a traumatic, very...and I don't use the right words, but I am very alarmed at such atrocities. We do what we can for those who are victims.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So are we all, but what if they don't want to bear the child they're carrying because of the level of atrocity? Are they among the 70,000 women who die because of unsafe abortion?

Finally, I'd like to pick up on something you said: it's going to be a very long time before we make progress in regard to women's reproductive health. Yes, it is going to take a long time. What kind of statement, though, is Canada making by changing the terms of our international commitment to family planning and support for women that includes abortion?

[Bev Oda, Conservative, Durham, ON]

As I said very clearly--and I can be no clearer than this--we are not changing our approach, the actions we take, the organizations, the activities we support, and the projects we support. We are not changing that at CIDA.

What we have decided as one initiative.... When you become privileged to host a G8 international summit, it is an opportunity for you to show leadership, and what we have done is that we have said we want to ensure that our G8 initiative is used for value, and the value is saving the lives of mothers and children.

We have not changed our policy, our approach, our programs, our guidelines, etc., at CIDA at all. So, please, I would like you to be accurate. We have not changed anything at CIDA.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Then could you explain--

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm sorry, Ms. Mathyssen. That's it. You've gone over seven minutes. I know time goes fast when you're having fun, obviously.

The second round is a five-minute round and we're going to go to Ms. Simson for the Liberals.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank both ministers for their appearance here today.

I would like to pick up on the story that was in Monday's Globe and Mail and revealed that CIDA prepared a brief for Minister Oda regarding the measures that are absolutely necessary to meet the MDG maternal health goals that everyone admits we're lagging on. This brief included, and I quote, “safe abortion services (when abortion is legal)”, under the heading, “How Can We Make It Happen?”

This question is for Ms. Biggs. Does CIDA continue to stand behind that report?

[Margaret Biggs]

Thank you for the question.

The document that was quoted in the newspaper is actually referring to an appendix in a document that was released under access to information. It was not advice that we provided to the minister. It was quoting--

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No, not advice---a brief. There's a difference between a brief and advice.

[Margaret Biggs]

Yes, that's correct. It was a background brief. It contained factual information. It included an appendix that you're referring to there. That refers to the global consensus on maternal and child health.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

But this brief said it would be necessary for safe abortion services when abortion's legal...that's going to be necessary to help us reach the goal. Is that included in the brief and does CIDA stand behind that brief?

[Margaret Biggs]

That was an appendix that was a piece of background information; it was not written by CIDA officials. I can show you; it was included as a piece of background information. Those are the words of the global consensus on maternal and child health.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question for Ms. Ambrose. When you did your opening statement, which was quite good, about how all women deserve equality and how your government is out there working for women's rights, human rights. With respect to “all women deserve equality”, is that men versus women or equality for all women?

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I'm not exactly sure...do you want me to define what equality is?

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No--

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I would assume that all of us in this room believe in equality between men and women.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

And between women around the world, equality for women around the world, not just as a comparative to men.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Yes, I believe that women all over the world should have the same universal rights. That is why I used an example of when our government stood up for a Saudi woman who had received lashings for being in a car with people she wasn't related to--

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

So you stand up for all women to have—

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

Those are universal rights I believe in and I think all of us should.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Right. So in other words, you don't believe that access to safe abortion or to reproductive health is a right for all women.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I understand that you want to use this debate on abortion to complicate the great initiative that Minister Oda is working on, but the maternal health and newborn initiative is about saving the lives of women and children.

We have documentation and advice from leading aid agencies from around the world that have advised Minister Oda and our government that we have an historic opportunity to work with our G8 partners. We have consensus with our G8 partners to move forward with initiatives that can save the lives of millions of women and children. That's what our government intends to do. Canadians support this kind of initiative. Frankly, it is a laudable, honourable, noble goal that I think all of us as Canadians, and especially women, can get behind.

As Minister Oda has indicated, this is an area in the millennium development goals that we are falling behind on, so she has shown leadership, as has the Prime Minister, to focus on this and make sure that we do our part.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Fair enough. I apologize, but I only have—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have 45 seconds left.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

If Canada offers something to its women that it is unwilling to offer outside Canada, do you not see that as an affront to women's rights globally, yes or no? I only have 45 seconds. I apologize.

[Rona Ambrose, Conservative, Edmonton—Spruce Grove, AB]

I think it is paternalistic for us to suggest that we should impose our views on other countries and that is not what this is about. This is about choosing an initiative that we believe will make a difference in the lives of women and children.