Status of Women Committee on June 4th, 2010

[Tamara Polchies]

Right now, we can take back to our committee how much all this will cost, what exactly we're looking for, and what our needs are to match our priorities to some type of budget we can try to get. I think you're bringing up a positive question. We're not really saying specifically what we're looking for. We're looking for whatever we can get. That's probably where we're at right now, because that's what we're used to. They'll tell us to take the $12 million for housing and do this across Canada, split it up this way, but now we'll need more.

So it is an excellent idea for us to attach budget to what we're doing.

[Natalie McBride]

We realize money's tight, no matter what government's saying. We've worked on this strategic framework for probably six years, because it changed, and then in September we're having another election here in New Brunswick. I think the important part about this strategic framework is the fact that we have to have partners. It's not just one provincial government to help us out. Everything costs money, but because we identified 49 recommendations that need to be done to help aboriginal women in family violence situations, that is our priority. We need to sit down as not only feds and province but chief in council, to get everyone to buy into these recommendations. This comes from community. This is what we're working on. This is what we identified in New Brunswick, and this is what we need to do.

I don't think we're at the point of how much it's going to cost because 49 recommendations are probably going to cost a lot. I think if we work in small steps and we sit in partnership, the two governments together along with us, then identify which ones are priorities, we can go from there. Right now, we can't give a dollar figure because that would be impossible.

[Sarah Rose]

At the same time, when you read through the recommendations, some of them don't have a dollar attached to them. I'm 34 years old. After high school and university, I settled down and realized I was having a family and I wanted to work for my people. So I've been doing this for the last four years.

There is some money attached to it. We have very poor relations in this province between the provincial government and the aboriginal people, whether it's on reserve or off reserve. We have little to no relationship. I must say it is changing. We have taken some very small steps, but the problem is we do not have a working relationship with our province. We are slowly getting there. So with some of them, it's just opening the door and working with our people. There are no dollars attached to that. It is working with us, being open to the opportunity to working with our people, and stop drawing that distinction of whose jurisdiction it is. That's what we've been asking for for a very long time. We are very grateful, but more needs to occur.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you.

One last question, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, and then Kelly.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

I'm so glad we don't have a time set.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

You have a few minutes.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Tanna, how many aboriginal women are in the alliance, in the union?

[Tanna Pirie-Wilson]

Right now, we are going through the mapping. Our circle has been asked by the Public Service Alliance to do that mapping. One of the studies that just came out was the public service employment equity study. The numbers show that aboriginal women are at 4.3%, I think, in the federal public service. Don't quote me on that number, but it's very low. In terms of those attached to the alliance, we were mandated in our circle to map out where those women are located, what their jobs are, and what positions they held.

We're in the middle of that mapping and we're finding out that most aboriginal women in the federal public service are at CR-4, at a very low level of government right now. That's why we've been mandated to map that, so that we have the exact figures to bring to government, to the employers, to our communities, to garner support for more action on that.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

But you do have full support from the union.

[Tanna Pirie-Wilson]

Yes, we do.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

My last question is about Sharon McIvor's case. What do you think we should do? It's very difficult, because it's also a money issue. If we act with our heart, it's one thing, but with our heads, it's something else.

[Tanna Pirie-Wilson]

One of the things I told another colleague is that we need to start to look into our communities. The Sharon McIvor case really looks at ending gender discrimination within the Indian Act. In terms of how to move forward from that, even our national aboriginal organizations have stepped back from taking a stance, because there is division even amongst our people as to which way we now need to go.

I think what we need to do and what I've asked my people to do is go back to the communities, look at our children, look at our people both on and off reserve, and think about the next seven generations. We have to think about the next 70 years ahead of us, because the last 70 years didn't think about us.

Honestly, I will not answer what direction we should go in. It's a neutral position that I personally have, because on one end I'm grateful for what the bill will do; however, it's not exactly what Mrs. McIvor wanted. I'm sure you have read your white-binder briefing notes on that. She actually did send out a letter recently to MPs declaring her stance. So I won't speak to Sharon McIvor's case, but personally I am neutral in terms of a position on that. I do ask that our communities look towards our future generations, the next 70 years ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Kelly.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much.

The struggle of going last is that you hear things that you want to pick up on, but you have other things going on in your mind. So I'm going to try to get back to some of the questions I first thought of.

We were in Iqaluit on Tuesday. We were in Labrador City on Wednesday. From my experience in my own province, we have very similar issues when we're dealing with remote, rural communities and trying to provide services to individuals that typically happen in an urban setting.

Can you tell me what is the population of New Brunswick, and what is the percentage of aboriginal people living in New Brunswick?

[Sarah Rose]

There are 22,000, if you're asking about status Indians, not including non-status. I don't know what the population of New Brunswick is.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

You mentioned that there is only one aboriginal transition house in New Brunswick that provides service to all aboriginal individuals on reserve and off reserve. How many first nations are there?

[Natalie McBride]

Fifteen.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

There are 15 first nations in New Brunswick.

I appreciated what my colleague Nicole said about wanting to come alongside and to empower, to figure out how we can work together as a federal government, provincial government, all the organizations that have been formed in a province, and then the first nations. Certainly as a member of the federal government, I am aware of the jurisdictional issues; I recognize that. We all play different roles and I think my perspective is to come at addressing the issues and finding the solutions. I want to respect the jurisdictions of the organizations of the province.

So you mentioned there was very little relationship between the first nations, your organizations, and the provincial government. Is that correct?

[Sarah Rose]

Yes. If they make changes to policies, we are not consulted, and if we are consulted, we are consulted after the fact.

If you look at the health blueprint that was done by the Province of New Brunswick, you will see that the aboriginal people were excluded from that process altogether. It wasn't until after the fact when it was about to be released that we spoke up and told the province there were 15 first nations and it did not consult us. Then we spent a summer, eight weeks, running around and doing a consultation, so we had an appendix to the provincial health blueprint. How do you exclude us? We're here.

If you look at the health conditions we are living with and dealing with, you will see that diabetes is an epidemic in our community. There is no other word to describe the rates we have. So how could you have a blueprint looking at the next five years for your province and not include first nations people?

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I just have another question coming out of that. We have the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations in our province, which brings all our first nations together in order to have a more collective voice when working with our provincial government. Can you tell me if you have an organization like that representing the aboriginal people or first nations in your province?

[Sarah Rose]

We have an Atlantic organization. We do not have a provincial one because the fifteen bands have broken up into twelve and three. So we have UNBI, the Union of New Brunswick Indians, and then we have the Mawiw Tribal Council. So when they meet, they meet with UNBI and then they meet with Mawiw. They do not meet with all fifteen groups at the same time. So again, it's like a divide and conquer.

We do have an organization at an Atlantic level, but the thing about that is that Nova Scotia seems to get more than New Brunswick. Again, it's an Atlantic perspective, so it's not a New Brunswick perspective, and that's what we're arguing to get now, a New Brunswick perspective on it.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Okay.

[Tamara Polchies]

I also think you need to include the off-reserve. There is a huge number of people who don't fill out the census form and there's a huge number of people who leave their communities to go to work and school; their permanent address may be at home, but they are accessing services off reserve. Or there may be confidentiality issues within their own communities, so they access services off reserve. So you have to factor in and not forget about the off-reserve as well when you talk about organizations that are representing aboriginal people. You need to include the off-reserve as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'm going to have to remember that we only have about another 15 minutes to go on this group, although we could go a little over.

I wanted to say something, but I just wanted to let everyone know that I was just very kindly given some statistics. In New Brunswick, Sarah said there are about 22,000 first nations people, and the total population of New Brunswick is 751,904. So that's a pretty big percentage.

Mr. Clarke.