Status of Women Committee on Oct. 19th, 2010

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you, Mr. Ignatieff.

Thanks, Nicole.

For the Conservatives, Ms. Hoeppner.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here, Mr. Ignatieff.

So if I understand you correctly from your response to Madame Demers, when you supported our equitable compensation act back in 2009, it was because you felt that it was not the right time for an election. You didn't want to go to an election, so it was politically expedient, I guess, for lack of a better term. It was a good time for you to support that piece of legislation.

Now you're saying that you've changed your mind and that's why you've introduced this private member's bill. Is that somewhat correct? You wanted to avoid an election, correct?

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I thank the honourable member for her question.

As I said in the other official language, you can't have an election every time you have a disagreement with the government. That's number one. I think you yourself acknowledge that in a minority Parliament that's actually a reasonable position to take.

Secondly, Bill C-10, the budget bill we are discussing, is what in common parlance is called a “dumpster bill”; you pile a lot of stuff in there. In our view, that is an absolutely terrible way to do parliamentary legislation. If the Conservative government had decided to introduce this bill on a stand-alone basis, they would have had a different result, and I think they knew it.

So it is our view that going forward, as we seek to make parliaments work, these kinds of dumpster bills, in which you load a lot of stuff, are a terrible way to do good legislation in the Parliament of Canada. Remember that we were in a very difficult financial situation, in a global recession. There were reasons to pass that budget, but we said at the time that we were holding our noses over pay equity—

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. Thank you very much, sir.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

—because we felt this was a serious mistake. That's why my private member's bill has been introduced.

Thank you.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thanks.

I only have seven minutes, so I'm going to try to get my questions done quickly.

Were you also aware when you introduced your private member's bill that it would require a royal recommendation in order to pass?

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Well, that's a judgment made by the government. I think if the government had a sincere desire to advance pay equity, we could find a solution.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

But you are aware that there are some private members' bills that absolutely don't need a royal recommendation because there would be no money associated with them. You knew that yours possibly would need it.

My question is, can you understand why some women would look at how you voted in 2009? They would look at this bill and may say that you're trying to score political points on the issue of pay equity, an issue that's important not only to women but also to men across Canada. Can you see why some women might say that or might think that?

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I think what women are looking for is action on pay equity. I think women in Canada want us, as parliamentarians, to do something about the facts—the facts being that women earn 72¢ on the dollar and women with children earn 52¢ on the dollar. This isn't a matter of intentions, if I can say so, with respect to you. We can all question each other's intentions. What matters is that parliamentarians work together to do something about these glaring inequalities--

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Are there any other issues, then--

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

--between men and women in Canada.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Are there any other issues, then, that you have voted on recently, even in the last two years--

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Hoeppner, other members have allowed the speaker to finish his answer. Can you please just give him that quarter of a second to do it? Thank you.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Thank you very much.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I'm happy to have--

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

A little exchange? You're all right with that?

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I'm happy to have the honourable member ask another question. I'm enjoying this exchange--I hope as much as she is.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Oh, good. Yes, I am, thanks.

I'm just wondering, then, if there are any other pieces of legislation that you would say you've changed your mind on, or that you voted in favour of, let's say, because it was the right time. Is there any other piece you might be changing your mind on?

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I'm not sure of the pertinence of that question. We're here to talk about pay equity and I'm happy to talk about pay equity. I have very strong convictions about a number of things, which never budge and never change, and one of them is the inequality that Canadian women face and that parliamentarians are here to redress. That's why I'm here this morning; I'm happy to do so.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Okay. I just thought I'd see if there were any other issues, because this is an important one.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

I'm going to go to a topic that is a little different, one that I am very passionate about. I'm sure you're aware of how many businesses in Canada are considered small and medium-sized.

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes.

[Candice Bergen, Conservative, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

About 98% are, so actually, almost all of the businesses in Canada are considered small and medium-sized businesses. They're not what would be labelled large corporations. Are you aware that 47% of those small and medium-sized businesses are owned either in whole or in part by women?

I'm thinking specifically of women in those situations who are actually just looking to take home a paycheque. Some of them are trying to make a payroll. They are trying to do that during a time when they are having some real difficulty. In fact, in my riding, I just visited a very small candle-making company that employed 26 people before the recession. I've met the woman who runs it. She has four men working for her, but she works for free. So for her, never mind pay equity; she would just like to get paid.

Can you understand? What would you say to those women who have heard that our government is firmly committed to cutting taxes on businesses, the small and medium-sized businesses that make up almost 98% of all businesses in Canada? We are committed, we've been steadfast, and we have not changed our minds or wavered at all. You have also been quite steadfast in the last few months in wanting to take away those tax cuts and to increase taxes on those small businesses.

What would you say to those women, especially considering the jobs they create and the huge pressure they are under already? How can you defend increasing taxes on small and medium-sized businesses in Canada?