Status of Women Committee on Jan. 13th, 2011

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Okay.

Ms. James.

[Val James, Representative, Ka Ni Kanichihk Inc.]

With regard to child care and whether it's accessible, it isn't. Actually the waiting lists are extremely long. When you have a spot in day care, you hold onto your spot for dear life, because as soon as you let it go, there are another 200 people behind you wanting that spot. That's for infants all the way up to school age. If you're trying to work because social assistance workers are saying your kid is over the age of six and you need to work, but you don't have anyone to provide before-school care, lunch-time care, or after-school care, then how are you supposed to work to support yourself and your children? It's impossible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Ms. Morgan, did you have your hand up?

[Sharon Morgan]

I did want to add to the child care issue. There are even schools that don't allow kids to have lunch at the school. That to me is just ridiculous. It really does stop a lot of women from going out and seeking jobs because of the child care problem and also because of where it is. These women have to take public transportation, and sometimes to get to their child care or their day care centre could take a very long time and two or three buses. So no, child care does not work well here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. That was bang on.

Now we go to Ms. Mathyssen, please.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to come back to Elder Sutherland and Ms. Marin, because during your presentation you talked about a facility or the kind of facility that was needed that would help young women to manage. You didn't really have a chance to describe it, and I wonder if you could do that now.

[Jojo Marie Sutherland]

When an aboriginal girl comes into the Native Women's Transition Centre, we have a lot of programs. We also have our culture. I'm the elder for the Native Women's Transition Centre. I teach them who they are, to find themselves as an aboriginal person, and to be proud of who they are.

I also teach the little kids to respect themselves, to respect their mothers. We had lost that when the residential schools came about because of the impact of the residential schools. We had lost that.

You have to re-teach to love. You have to re-teach to respect. You have to bring back the seven sacred teachings, as they do come in.

Also, I was sitting here listening about child care. When the women come to the Native Women's Transition Centre, they come there to heal themselves, the educational part of themselves, who they are. We give them back who they are. Also, there is no child care during their education. A lot of them give up. They want to go back to do their grade 5. They want to go back to do their grade 3, grade 10, but there's no child care. They apply for work and they apply for school. They are accepted, but they cannot go because there is no child care. We need more money in child care for aboriginal women.

We need more help in funding the cultural part to find who we are as aboriginal people. Once we find ourselves, once we take back what was taken from us, our language, our culture—that was taken, robbed from us—you will see aboriginal women walking with their heads up.

My children do walk with their heads up as aboriginal people, as I do myself. I walk with my head up. I will never let anyone walk in front of me or push me to the side, as was done to me in the convent. I was told, “Shut up, you're just an aboriginal person.” But I was a person, and I claimed that person, who I am, and that is what I brought to the Native Women's Transition Centre, my cultural part.

Listening and crying with them, laughing with them, and playing with them is an important key for that healing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Ms. Sutherland.

That's it, I'm sorry. It's now 9:30 and we have another group waiting.

I want to thank the witnesses for coming. I know it seems rushed. We have had so many people wanting to present to this committee that we've had to really tighten the timelines, so we could have as many panels as we'd like.

Thank you for coming.

If we could, we'll have a two-minute suspension, so that we could get everyone to change places and bring in the others.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I'd like to call the meeting to order.

This is the Standing Committee on the Status of Women. It's an all-party committee, which means that all four political parties are represented. It is not a partisan committee. We are here to gather information. We are here to listen and we're here to see what Parliament has to say and recommend about the issue. We're looking at violence against aboriginal women, the high levels of violence. We're looking at the root causes of that violence and wanting to know what the extent of the violence is, the types of violence, and the nature of the violence.

We're hoping we could have some solutions. When we as a committee agreed to do this we believed that there has been a lot of money and funding and all sorts of programs put forward in the past, and it has had very little effect. So we would like to see an effective solution to these problems.

Each of you will have five minutes to present, and then we have a question and answer period. If we are going to finish so that we can go to the next panel I'm going to have to be really strict with your answers and with my colleagues on their questions.

So now we'd like to begin with Commissioner Bill Robinson of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Commissioner Robinson, five minutes, please.

[A/Commr Bill Robinson, Commanding Officer, "D" Division, Winnipeg, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you.

Good morning. I'd like to thank the committee for allowing the RCMP to appear here this morning. It means a great deal to us.

“D” Division RCMP provides policing services to most of Manitoba's rural and remote communities: more than 446,000 people, including 59 first nations and 48 Métis communities.

The RCMP has long been working closely with our aboriginal communities to strengthen mutual communication. “D” Division's aboriginal advisory committee includes elders and aboriginal peoples from different backgrounds and perspectives. We also have well-established public safety protocols with the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, the MKO, which represents our northern chiefs, and the southern chiefs.

“D” Division's aboriginal policing service facilitates communications processes on high-profile matters of concern to the aboriginal leadership and community. Just last year, in August of 2009, “D” Division RCMP and the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs signed a memorandum of understanding that saw a regular member of the RCMP, Ms. Monique Cooper, who is behind me here today, join the AMC at their work.

Responding to the feedback from the commanding officer's aboriginal advisory committee, we established a new position of gang awareness coordinator in April of 2010 to implement the gang prevention, education, and initiative strategy.

We are also actively involved in human trafficking prevention and awareness. “D” Division participates in the provincial human trafficking and response team committee with representatives from the Winnipeg Police Service, the Manitoba Department of Justice, the Canada Border Services Agency, the Salvation Army, the Canadian Council for Refugees, Manitoba Status of Women, Manitoba Justice Victim Services, Ma Mawi, the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, and others.

“D” Division RCMP continues its efforts to raise awareness among its members about the emerging human trafficking concern and the issue of murdered and missing women in Manitoba. “D” Division's contract and aboriginal policing services, in partnership with the RCMP northwest immigration and passport section and the national human trafficking coordination centre in Ottawa, provide training and awareness tools to our members. Training has been delivered to the Manitoba north, east, and west districts intelligence officers and groups and to our “D” division traffic services, which patrol our highways every day.

In addition to the awareness training workshops, “D” Division training has also incorporated human trafficking awareness and the video I'm not for sale to candidates on a number of courses, including our new member orientation course investigators, drug, basic intelligence, child abuse, investigative interviewing, and traffic services interdiction teams.

I would like to provide you with a brief overview of “D” Division RCMP efforts in addressing and responding to the issue of violence against aboriginal women, including the high-risk missing persons project, Project Disappear, and the Manitoba integrated task force for missing and murdered women.

In 2003 the RCMP and its partners at municipal police services in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta responded to concerns about unsolved homicides and missing persons by establishing the high-risk missing persons project. In Manitoba, “D” Division, the Winnipeg Police Service, and the RCMP participated in this multi-agency, multi-jurisdictional regional effort to identify, collect, collate and evaluate, and analyze all high-risk missing persons and unsolved homicide cases.

“High-risk” in this context is defined as people whose lifestyle, behaviours, or circumstances place them at risk of falling victim to violent crime. The high-risk missing persons project produced a significant number of findings that were well documented and require further investigation and analysis.

Project Disappear was created in 2007 under the purview of the Manitoba Association of Chiefs of Police, representing Manitoba's nine police departments, four of which have missing persons files. Managed by the “D” Division historical case unit, the project and website include persons who have been missing for six months or longer.

More than 170 missing persons and unidentified human remains investigations in Manitoba are detailed on this website. The oldest missing person file is from 1939. Project Disappear's ongoing work includes the review of data and provincial standardization of policies, procedures, tools, and approaches.

The Manitoba integrated task force for missing and murdered women was formed in August of 2009. The task force consists of five RCMP members, two of which are RCMP division criminal analysts, and four Winnipeg Police Service members. The mandate is to review all unsolved homicide investigations involving female victims; to review missing person investigations involving women where foul play is suspected; to analyze investigational information to determine what, if any, linkages exist between occurrences; and to determine the appropriate avenues for investigative follow-up.

Located at “D” Division headquarters in Winnipeg, the integrated unit began its work in October 2009 and is currently at the analytical stage of its mandate. This includes collecting and collating information and conducting investigational reviews and forensic reviews for all mandated cases. In addition to actively reviewing all reported cases of missing women, the integrated task force is developing best practices relating to information sharing, file management, file coordination, and disclosure that can be shared with other investigative units or implemented in similar initiatives across the country.

We are committed to providing answers, comfort, and closure to families and loved ones of the victims while respecting and ensuring integrity of the ongoing investigation. Let me assure you that the RCMP investigates and takes seriously all cases of missing and murdered individuals, regardless of sex, ethnicity, background, or lifestyle.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Now we'll go to Lisa Michell of the Women's Memorial March of Manitoba.

[Lisa Michell, Chair and Organizer, Women's Memorial March of Manitoba]

Good morning. I'd like to say meegwetch for asking me to come and present today. I'm the voluntary chair for the Women's Memorial March.

Just so you have a little bit of information about the work we do, this is our fourth year. I myself am a grassroots person. I've been in the grassroots community for the past 20 years, and I've been working diligently at eliminating violence against women, and not just aboriginal women but all women.

For our march, the list of missing and murdered women goes back as far as 1968. The oldest woman we have had was 86 years old. To date we have 216, but as I said earlier, that includes all women, not just aboriginal women.

In my presentation I just want to talk a little bit about the root of violence against women. The way I see it, it's poverty. Poverty comes in many forms. Even when they have access to an income assistance program, there isn't sufficient funding for them. They're set up in lower-income housing in high-risk areas. They're not set up in safer places. So that's a big issue. They're not given sufficient funding.

Some mothers, when they go out and work for minimum wage, could actually get more money from staying at home and being on income assistance, because then things are taken care of. So that's a real gap.

Another thing is that because of a lack of money and because of poverty, many moms do want to support their families and their children, and they end up out on the streets. Being a sex-trade worker is not something you do by choice. Many people beg to differ, but I say they're not there by choice. When they were young, they didn't say, “Oh, someday I want to work on the street”. That's not what happened. They are there because of financial stuff. Yes, some of them are there because of addiction, because that's all part of it. It becomes part of it. People will say, “Oh, well, here's something.” It's a vicious cycle, so it goes on and on.

As for some of the gaps in the justice system, racism is one of the contributing factors with regard to justice in our communities. Because my ear is close to the ground, many people come to me, and they say, “This is what happened to me”, and it is racism. It's not everybody, of course, but it's still there.

It's the same thing with discrimination. We're discriminated against because we're women and because we're aboriginal women.

Here in Winnipeg, we have a task force, but we have noticed a gap. The task at hand is to paint the fence, but how is it going to be painted? Is it just going to be painted in certain spots? My goal is that the fence would be painted in a good way.

There are flaws in there. One of the big issues is communication. Jurisdiction and things like saying, “Oh, well, they're on this side of the road, so we can't deal with it” really need to be dealt with.

We had a case here. In St. Vital there was a man who robbed a 7-Eleven. He left the city of Winnipeg, and Winnipeg Police Service went in to apprehend him in a small community south of Winnipeg. So if they can go out of town to apprehend a criminal in action, why can they not cross that street or cross that road to go find a woman who has either been murdered or is missing? That would be one of my questions.

There are gaps in appropriate victims services. Many of our community members do not know how to access them. They don't know what those are. Yes, the Winnipeg Police Service does have a victims services branch, but they don't know how to access it.

In terms of healing in our families and communities, it starts with me, and it starts with me and my family. I work that way: my family, my community, and now the nation. So that's how healing really happens.

In terms of education, reserve to urban, there need to be supports for people when they move here.

The other thing is that we have programs here in Winnipeg, but they don't fit everybody. For example, if I was being assaulted by somebody and I wanted to go to a shelter, I wouldn't go because my children are over the age of 18, and I'm not going to leave my children at home at risk. So there's a gap right there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We will now hear from Carolyn Loeppky, Assistant Deputy Minister, Child and Family Services, Government of Manitoba.

[Carolyn Loeppky, Assistant Deputy Minister, Child and Familly Services, Government of Manitoba]

Thank you very much, and thank you for inviting me to speak here today.

I come here today with an interest in Manitoba's children and a career that I've had working in the public sector for nearly 40 years. The areas I have some responsibility for now, and overseeing within the provincial government, are child care, child welfare, family violence prevention, and family conciliation services, which are geared toward families experiencing separation, divorce, and custodial issues with respect to those.

I'd like to talk a little bit about each one of those areas and identify some of the current trends that we're seeing and also some of our challenges, and perhaps offer some information that may be of help in the future deliberations of the panel.

With respect to child care, in Manitoba we have a child care program that, as you have heard, does not meet all of the needs for all of the families that we have. We've had a system that we've been building consistently and steadily over the last number of years. We are right now in the middle of another five-year strategic delivery where we're trying to expand the number of spaces for families as well as improve the quality of our child care.

There is no national program for child care. Each province is working within its own framework in order to look at the needs it has within the province to find ways to ensure that it works toward building a program.

Within child care right now in Manitoba, we have approximately 1,100 centres, and half of those, or about 600, are centres that would be located in schools and other community facilities. The remaining are in family homes where we have licensed people within families where they have smaller numbers of children, but they do provide licensed child care.

In looking at child care, definitely we do see the need to continue the growth for training in order to expand the programs, because with training comes quality programs. We look at the issues of capital facilities and infrastructure. One of the things with child care programs is that they do not enjoy the same kind of infrastructure that many of the other established programs have, like the school systems.

Most recently, we've been having some dialogue with the federal government because of the initiatives that are being undertaken with child care on reserve. There is a directive that the federal government is expecting to have child care on reserve licensed by the year 2015. The opportunity here exists to look at, again, trying to have a program that is equitable and has the same opportunity both on and off reserve.

In child welfare in Manitoba, we've had a long history that started many, many decades ago, but there were some profound events that occurred prior to 1991, and with the release of the report of the aboriginal justice inquiry of Manitoba”in 1991. Ten years lapsed before there was activity with respect to that report and its recommendations. Now in the year 2011 we have a system within Manitoba that was jointly designed with the aboriginal community, the Métis community, and the provincial government in order to look at the governance of child welfare within the province of Manitoba.

This is a very challenging area. I think we all know the challenges this presents to families. The biggest drivers for child welfare, of course, are addictions, housing, and poverty. This is what brings children into the child welfare system.

Our social workers, who are the front-line firefighters in terms of trying to keep children safe, have many, many challenges that they themselves cannot do by themselves. Most recently our work with the federal government has resulted in a landmark activity in terms of the development of a joint or harmonized funding model for child welfare. It was finalized in terms of the work that we were doing together last July, when there was an announcement by the federal government with respect to the proportion of funding they were going to contribute to ensure that we would be looking at a model for child welfare that would reduce the number of children in care by providing resources and funding to prevention services, and to enhance family services across the province.

In family violence prevention, we continue to work across the province in terms of the resources we provide for women who have the experience of domestic violence. This is an area that continues to be of concern. We're also looking forward to the work that we're going to be doing collaboratively to improve the services on reserve.

My time is up. I wish I had more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. Hopefully you can make some more points during the question and answer time.

We now have the Stop Violence Against Aboriginal Women Action Group. Lisa Forbes is going to speak. Shawna Ferris is also from that group.

You have five minutes. I don't know who would like to take the five minutes. If you want to divide it, I'll tell when you're halfway.

[Shawna Ferris, Member, Assistant Professor of Women's and Gender Studies, University of Manitoba, Stopping Violence Against Aboriginal Women Action Group]

We were told we had ten minutes, but Lisa will speak on our behalf.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's fine. Go ahead.

[Lisa Forbes, Asset Building Program Coordinator, Supporting Employment & Economic Development (SEED) Winnipeg Inc.; Member, Stop Violence Against Aboriginal Women Action Group]

First, let me say thank you to the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women for inviting us to present on this panel as witnesses on the issue of violence against aboriginal women.

As well, I'd like to commend committee members for your particular interest in understanding community perspectives regarding the continuing and troubling fact that aboriginal women and girls continue to be overrepresented as victims in acts of violence. It is widely acknowledged that more violent crimes happen to aboriginal women than to other women in Canada and that those crimes are less likely to be solved. It is very disturbing to us that young aboriginal women are at least five times more likely than other women in Canada to die as a result of violence.

We are here representing the Stop Violence Against Aboriginal Women Action Group. This is a grassroots initiative of aboriginal and non-aboriginal citizens who are creating and implementing tangible actions with the goal of preventing violence against aboriginal women and girls here in Winnipeg and also at the national level. As this panel was looking at current research and service provision with respect to violence against aboriginal women, we will refer to the findings from our community-based research conducted in Winnipeg in May 2010.

In order to understand the gaps, the needs of aboriginal women and girls living in violent situations, and the ways that could prevent further violence, the Stop Violence Against Aboriginal Women Action Group held a community organization gathering and focus group that brought together a diversity of perspectives from aboriginal and non-aboriginal men and women from across Winnipeg. Participants represented 44 social service delivery, research, education, justice, and policing organizations, as well as community groups that work in human rights and aboriginal women's and victims' advocacy.

A survey preceded the focus group, to which 28 organizations provided input. We would like to draw your attention to two of these questions. Organizations were asked to state whether the supply of programs and services was meeting the needs of aboriginal women and girls living in violence. Half of them stated that needs were somewhat being met by the supply. The results show that over a third were not or were only somewhat meeting the demand of aboriginal women and girls in situations of violence.

One of the participants stated that current programs are overused and women are regularly requesting more support, particularly around domestic violence. Another noted that the current location and types of services do not always fit with the needs of the community--for example, faith homes for sexually exploited youth. One reply made reference to the deep and insidious roots of violence, stating that efforts are being made, but the problems experienced by aboriginal women are overwhelming. These include unsafe housing, poverty, addictions, chronic ill health, involvement with child protection, violent neighbourhoods, limited employment opportunities, and the long-term effects of complex post-traumatic stress disorder on mental health, such as the legacy of colonialism and residential schools.

The second question asked the organizations to rate the importance of 19 different services and programs for aboriginal women and girls experiencing violence. The top five priorities included greater access to safe and affordable housing; the development of specialized training for police and social service workers; poverty reduction policies and initiatives; increased addiction treatment services; and greater advocacy for aboriginal women and girls.

There was general consensus among the participating organizations that anti-violence work specifically addressing the plight of aboriginal women and girls must begin, continue, or be strengthened on many other fronts as well, including domestic violence prevention for boys and men; services for male violent offenders; transition services for ex-gang members, those who have reached age 18 and are leaving the ward of CFS, and those coming to cities from reserves and rural communities; support services for families of missing and murdered aboriginal women and girls; anti-racism training and awareness for the general public as well as the news media; women's resource information networks; resources for sexually exploited people; and services for those who are involved in the justice system. Organizations agreed that services need to be culturally rooted, around the clock, and receiving multi-year core funding.

We learned from the participants that there are current practices in the community that can be built upon to prevent further violence against aboriginal women and girls. These include aboriginal space, culture, and spirituality that are reclaimed through culturally appropriate services, elders, traditional ceremonies, awareness of colonial history, and an increase in aboriginal teachers and aboriginal history in school; respectful engagement and consultation by government with community groups through increased networks between government institutions and grassroots groups; grassroots community organizing and networking; leaders who lead by example; counselling for children who have experienced or witnessed violence; initiatives that build women's and girls' capacity to be strong, independent, and empowered instead of feeling victimized; positive language use by police; and projects that reach out to youth.

The focus group members were interested in the creation of a network of the organizations that were present that day as well as others for the purpose of informing each other of relevant initiatives, and the creation of strategic alignments toward the prevention of violence against aboriginal women and girls. A network model is currently being developed in consultation with aboriginal women.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I would like to ask if you could table the results of that survey with the clerk. You have? Good. Thank you. So it can be distributed to the committee and we can read it.

We've heard the presentations, and now we're going to go into our question and answer period. The first question and answer period is seven minutes long, and as I've explained before, that seven minutes includes questions and answers, so I would really like everyone to be as succinct as they could, please. I know it's difficult, but we have another panel coming up after you, so we have to end on time.

We will begin with Ms. Neville for the Liberal Party.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It's seven minutes?

Thank you all for coming. I very much appreciate hearing from you.

I'm going to try to weave something together, and I hope I'm not creating something.

Yesterday, as you heard, we were in Prince Albert. One of the overriding concerns we heard there, and what I have heard in other communities, not large urban ones but smaller communities, was with regard to the systems in the community, the social welfare systems, the justice system--Lisa Michell spoke about that--and the policing system. We heard today from Mr. Robinson what the police are doing, particularly as it relates to missing and murdered aboriginal women. But what we heard was a real concern that many aboriginal women do not feel they are treated appropriately by the systems, whether welfare, justice, or the police. In one community I was at, they said starkly that they didn't feel safe, that they didn't feel they had protection here.

I would like your comments and your recommendations on what we should be recommending to work with, help, or support organizations, because--and this is my view--we are dealing with racism and discrimination to a large extent.

I'm rambling a little bit, and I'm not sure if I'm gathering the essence of what I want to say, but if I make sense to you, please respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We'll hear from Commissioner Robinson, please. Then we'll move on to social services, and if we have time we can hear from them.

[A/Commr Bill Robinson]

Thank you for the question.

We police, as you know, a majority of Manitoba's rural communities and first nations communities. I think there are a couple of very important points we have to get across, certainly relative to policing and partnerships. I think the first is with regard to perceptions training for the police. Every year we participate in and give as many of our officers as possible aboriginal perceptions training. It's important that they understand the communities in which they serve and the issues and how aboriginal first nations people view them and vice versa. I think certainly that's the first step.

But as far as the safety issue in communities goes, a lot of our more isolated northern communities in Manitoba are policed by a detachment that in some cases has to fly in or we have to do visitations into the communities. I've heard it said, certainly, that in some instances some people don't feel safe, of course, because we're not there all the time. But we do the best we can with the service level we have in those communities, and we try our best to provide safety to not only aboriginal women and men but also the children in those communities by getting into the schools and doing those things.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Commissioner Robinson, the community that I heard it from most assertively was not a Manitoba community; it was a northern community. The women were quite clear: they do not feel safe; they do not feel they have anywhere to go.

When these issues come to your attention as a leader in the RCMP, that there are issues of discrimination, racism, neglect, or however you want to describe it, what action do you take?

[A/Commr Bill Robinson]

I travel extensively in the province, and the communication to my members is this, and I know this is relayed across the force: you will treat all persons in Manitoba with the same level of dignity, respect, professionalism, and compassion as you would any other person. What does that mean? Does that mean that when you show up at a house in a northern Manitoba community and there's been domestic violence you have the same resources available to you that you may have in Winnipeg or Brandon or Dauphin? No, it doesn't. It means exactly the opposite. In some cases the ability to remove a husband from the home or the ability to find kids adequate care is very, very, challenging. What we try to do is find family members and locate people and put them in areas of safety.

The one point I do want to get across is that no one agency in the north, or even in the south, can do this alone. It has to be a partnership activity. There has to be the ability for Child and Family Services, for the RCMP, for Awasis, for all of the agencies to come together and work together to find solutions for this.

I've heard many people talk about addictions this morning. I've heard many people talk about communities that are in a state of crisis. And that is true. There is little doubt that those are some of the overriding issues.

As far as systemic racism, what do we do--

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We only have about 30 seconds left.