Status of Women Committee on Jan. 14th, 2011

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Order, please.

I want to say thank you to all those who have come to present to us today, folks from Beendigen; the Catholic Family Development Centre; Nishnawbe Aski Nation; the Ontario Native Women's Association, NWAC; and Robinson Superior Treaty Women's Council. We're very grateful that you've agreed to meet with us. I want to thank you for your time and thank you in advance for the good advice and the wisdom that I know we're going to hear today.

I'd also like to say thank you for the kind welcome to the Nishnawbe Aski traditional territory. We're very pleased to be here.

As you can see, this is an all-party committee. We have Madam Michelle Simson, a member of the Liberal Party; Madam Nicole Demers, a member of the Bloc; and my colleague, Bruce Hyer, who is the MP for Thunder Bay—Superior North, a New Democrat; and, of course, Mr. Greg Rickford, who is a member of the Conservative Party.

Our mandate is to look at violence against aboriginal women. We want to know the root causes, what you see as some of the reasons that women and their families suffer from such violence, the nature of that violence, and the extent of the violence. Finally, what we really want is a sense of the solutions, because we firmly believe that the community is the source of solutions to a problem that we've been struggling with for far too long. So I want to thank you again.

Before we begin, I'd like to ask the indulgence of the committee. Since I'm chairing, I would be happy to take the first round, the seven-minute round, but, with your permission, perhaps Mr. Hyer could ask questions in the second five-minute round. That way I won't muddle things as badly as I usually do, and I can focus on chairing.

Is that all right with the committee? Are there any objections?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you very much for that.

Presenters, you have five to seven minutes. I know it's not very much time, but there are many people to speak. So that's five to seven minutes per group.

I know that Ms. Brenda Bunting has joined the Nishnawbe Aski Nation and is in the audience. If there are questions that you feel she would be more adroit at answering, please feel free to call her to the microphone.

With no further ado, we'll begin with Patricia Jurivee, from Beendigen, please.

[Patricia Jurivee, Executive Director, Beendigen Inc.]

Thank you very much for asking me to be here; I'm very honoured. I hope I can give you some good recommendations.

As you know, I'm the executive director of a 24-bed crisis home. With the women who come through the shelter, what we see is generational violence. What we see are very vulnerable aboriginal women, and poverty, extreme poverty. Those are just some of the issues that I will speak about, because I'm on such a time limit here.

We see a lot of recidivism--generational, of course. The residential school system of course plays a big role in all of that. There's a lack of parenting skills, but not no parenting skills, and I will never say that; I believe the women have very good parenting skills, considering, so I give them a lot of credit. They're very, very strong women. However, the system certainly needs to be improved in some areas to help the women and children.

One of the first recommendations I want to bring forward is about the disparity in funding dollars between INAC shelters and the provincially funded shelters. There's a huge disparity. I know that the dollars are also funded from the bands or chiefs, and I do know that there are probably administration charges there. I have heard that they can be as high as 30%. I don't know that for sure. That's just some of what I have been told. This means, of course, that those dollars are then taken away from the women and children and the shelters. So what I would like to see and what I recommend is that those dollars be flowed directly to the shelters.

Another issue that concerns me is the low amount or lack of funding dollars for the aboriginal and off-reserve pre- and post-natal program as well as the CAPC program, which is for children zero to six years old. We barely make it: we almost beg, borrow, and steal in order to run those programs. We have people who are very capable of running those programs and want to do a very good job, but they're very limited in what they can afford to do.

The other one is the NADA program and its very low, low funding dollars: $35,000 a year to run the program. That's supposed to be considered a full-time position. You can't do it. For the worker we have now, we very fortunately were able to swing her into another piece of work so that we can try to pay her a decent wage, yet this program asks for certification for a person to be able to do it. Well, if you want somebody with certification in those types of qualities, then we need to be able to pay a comparable salary or wage, and we also need more dollars to sufficiently run these programs.

On homelessness, I'd like to see forgiveness in the housing arrears. I'd like to see the arrears alleviated in some of the government housing, because it means that if a woman cannot pay her arrears, she is not allowed to go into the housing. Those arrears have to be paid and can be anywhere from $800 to $1,500. That means homelessness. Now we get to that issue, because women can't afford to go into homes, or if they can afford to go into private housing, it means their entire cheque goes towards that. Again, that amounts to poverty, and it also can amount to child welfare agencies coming in, because it seems like she is inadequate and is not able to take care of her children: there's no food in the fridge, there's no warm clothing, etc. On it goes.

I would like to see more funding dollars in terms of mental health and addiction training--concurrent disorders--because right now in the shelters that is exactly what we are seeing, with very extreme mental health issues that put the entire shelter at risk.

Homelessness, of course, is another big piece for aboriginal women. They're out on the street. They have no place to go. They don't fit our mandate, unfortunately.

I'm telling you, we coach them sometimes to tell us they've been abused, because we don't want them out on the street. If that means I have to coach her to be able to say what I need to hear to get her in, I will do that. In the meantime, that doesn't solve her issue; it's only for a short period of time.

We need some long-term programs for homelessness. We need single units in particular, because we have some huge difficulties attempting to find apartments for single women. We probably need more funding and ongoing funding dollars for violence prevention work, initiatives for the aboriginal men's programs. I won't attempt to say the aboriginal name; although I am aboriginal, I cannot pronounce it. But “I Am a Kind Man” in particular is a wonderful program. We do run some programs here in Thunder Bay for men, and I would like to see some of the shelter workers and the shelters get involved in that work, which is our work as well. We want to be able to work holistically. Coming from a shelter, we work with the women and children, but we don't have the funding dollars to be able to work with the men, and we would like to do that. So increase the funding dollars for that, more funding dollars for that.

We'd also like support and dollars for the aboriginal women's crisis line. I have attended two meetings so far, and I'm hoping to see the fruits of the labour that went into that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

I am sorry, that's seven minutes. I thank you, but we do need to move on to the Catholic Family Development Centre.

Is there one spokesperson? If you could divide your time, that would be wonderful.

[Carol Cline, Program Manager, Catholic Family Development Centre]

Thank you, Madam Chair, for asking us to appear today. Welcome to Thunder Bay and welcome to all of you. Thank you.

My name is Carol Cline, and I'm the program manager with the Catholic Family Development Centre. This is Robert Barrett, the executive director, and Ron Bourret, the chair of our board of directors.

We are here today to speak about the counselling and education work we do through our centre with aboriginal women who are struggling to heal from the effects of violence. Aboriginal women who present themselves at agencies like ours are victims of violence, as well as perpetrators of violence. They present as women struggling to become better moms, and they present as women struggling to become better partners. Some present as quite quiet and withdrawn, others present as angry and aggressive, and some present as confident and assertive.

We welcome approximately 200 aboriginal women annually through our small agency. Most of these women are mandated to participate in a partner abuse program, or they're mandated to participate in a psycho-educational group while they're incarcerated in a jail. We also see aboriginal women voluntarily through our agency, through the first nations and Inuit health benefit funding. The aboriginal women we see through these various programs are all victims. They've suffered horrendous violence perpetrated overwhelmingly by men in positions of power and authority and/or intimacy. Men who these women thought would love, respect, and protect them instead betrayed them.

From the residential school abuses, to the intimate partner terrorism, to being beaten or raped, or any other manner of horror that these women had to go through, they have been left to make a life without the resources and support required to move beyond poverty, addictions, and violence.

[Ron Bourret, Board of Directors, Catholic Family Development Centre]

We've allowed these young aboriginal girls to grow up in a world that continuously places them at risk to any and all imaginable and unimaginable abuses. For many young aboriginal girls, teens, and women, the future is rife with discrimination, victimization, and murder. For a growing number of others, we can only guess at their fate because no one ever hears from them again.

If we are to make any recommendations, Madam Chair, they would begin with seeking out and listening to aboriginal women. Their voices carry not just their stories, but also their strength and their wisdom.

Our next recommendation would include creating safe environments, affordable housing, food, and opportunities. These women could then come forward and know that perhaps for the first time in their lives they could enter a world of trust. We would gladly continue to accompany them on their own individual healing journey.

Our final recommendation would be to educate our country about the history of our first nations people. A greater understanding of the abhorrent mistreatment of our first nations people may help us to forge a brighter future for those who many consider our most vulnerable population.

[Rob Barrett, Executive Director, Catholic Family Development Centre]

In our communities we see aboriginal women in lineups for soup kitchens, food banks, or quite often standing on a street corner. We do not see a lot of aboriginal women playing the parts of physicians, lawyers, teachers, or other visible professions, yet we clearly know that these women are intelligent, capable, and strong. The difference for many of us between success and failure and achieving and struggling is quite simply opportunity. Without the opportunity to achieve a higher education, to secure well-paid employment, and to receive appropriate health care we will continue to allow aboriginal women to remain mired in poverty, which not only chains these women to a life laced with stress and subsistence, but which all too often leads to violence.

Within our own community we have a number of aboriginal women who are champions. From Patricia Jurivee and the women you see at this table to Anna Gibbon, to Anne LeSage, Sandi Boucher, Jo Jo Guillet, these are women who are not only aboriginal, but who have somehow managed to overcome all of the barriers that our country and communities have put in place for them to become champions within our community, not only for the work they do, but also for the people they have become.

Could we use more money to support these women and the work they do? Absolutely. But for us at our centre it's more important for us to hear from aboriginal women themselves how they would like their services delivered.

Thank you for listening to us, thank you for inviting us here. But more importantly, listen to the stories of these women and those of other aboriginal women who come to agencies like ours. By listening, perhaps we can better shape our services, communities, and ultimately our country to see aboriginal women for who they truly are: strong, valued, intelligent, honoured people.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you very much. That was very concise, and we appreciate it.

Now the Nishnawbe Aski Nation. Is there one spokesperson?

[Christine Simard, Director of Women's Development, Nishnawbe Aski Nation]

We're going to divide.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Okay, thank you.

Please go ahead.

[Christine Simard]

[Witness speaks in her native language]

Madam Chair, honourable members, my name is Christine Simard and I am the director of women's development, Nishnawbe Aski Nation. I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the committee's study on violence against aboriginal women.

With the Nishnawbe Aski Nation, we represent 49 first nations within the territory of James Bay Treaty 9 and the Ontario portions of Treaty 5. The total approximate population of the Nishnawbe Aski Nation members on and off reserve is 45,000. The people of NAN traditionally speak Ojibway, Cree, and Ojicree.

I want to share a little bit of the historical perspective of violence and how it came to be within our first nation communities.

First nation members of Nishnawbe Aski Nation have been displaced. They've been taken away from homes and forced to attend residential schools. We have gone through radar sites on the coast of James Bay, the sixties scoop, and alcohol, solvent, and prescription drug abuse. A large number of suicides have happened over the past 25 years among our young people, and of course there's domestic violence that ties in with all of this. There are many contributing factors that end up with our women facing violence.

Within Nishnawbe Aski Nation we are fortunate enough to have a policing program called Nishnawbe Aski Police Services, which is also known as NAPS. According to the NAPS statistics, from 2006 to 2009 there were a total of 1,556 calls to domestic disputes. For sexual assaults there were a total of 569 cases reported. That equals 2,125 types of violence against first nation women within Nishnawbe Aski Nation.

[Chief Lorraine Crane, Nishnawbe Aski Nation Women's Council member, Thunder Bay Indian Friendship Centre]

Boozhoo.

I know we don't have very much time. I would like to speak about the general impacts that have a lot to do with the violence against our women and children. I always include children, because they need a voice too.

I myself am a survivor. I was left with four children 25 years ago. I had to fend for them by myself. Some women give up, but some women don't give up. They get on with their lives and do the best they can for their children. We see so many displaced children today because the mothers have given up. That's the sad reality I see with our people.

In terms of some of the problems I see with people needing help, when they need assistance and they ask for assistance, there's no place to go. The waiting lists for any programs or treatment centres are long. Many times they don't accept the family. A mother of three or four can't take the children with them. They can't go into a treatment centre if they have a police record. They can't.... There are just many blocks that mothers face when they're seeking help.

I could go on, but I'm going to let my colleague here take over. I don't want the whole seven minutes.

Thank you.

[Theresa Sutherland, Nishnawbe Aski Nation Women's Council member, Thunder Bay Indian Friendship Centre]

Wachiya. I am Theresa Sutherland.

[Witness speaks in her native language]

I thank you all for hearing me today in regard to violence against women. I wrote down some stuff here that I quickly want to cover in regard to being born and raised in an isolated community.

I speak on behalf of our women, our young women. I speak on behalf of them because in the isolated communities their first language is the native language. And I speak for them in regard to the fact that when they go through violence, they are unable to leave the community itself because they have no way of communicating with people outside. They don't really have their English language, and therefore, when they're looking for some kind of help for themselves, they have no place to go. They're lost already because they are unable to speak the English language. I speak on behalf of them because they're not able to disclose about themselves, if they should go for counselling, as they don't have a counsellor who speaks the language.

Then, also, they just have no place to go. If they do have a counsellor within their isolated community itself, it could be their grandmother. It could be their aunt. Therefore they have nothing; they have nobody to go to. So I speak on behalf of the families, and if there's a relationship that doesn't work within, and then it comes down to very.... They're just stuck: nothing.

I go from community to community trying to help our people. I speak with them, and relate to them within their language, because I have my language. This one girl I was talking to told me that she had gone through 15 years of abuse. She thought it was normal.

I speak for these women because I think we need more counsellors, more resource workers, within the isolated communities. Our young people, our young women, could start to feel some self-esteem if they had more resource workers, mental health workers, and what have you.

This is what we need within the community. It's hard for them to leave their community, because that's their roots. That's their heart.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you very much.

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

When it's time for the MPs to ask their questions, it would be wonderful if you included the things that you wish to say. I'm sure there'll be opportunities.

From the Ontario Native Women's Association, Dawn Harvard, please.

[Dawn Harvard, President, Board of Directors, Ontario Native Women's Association]

Thank you very much to the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women for inviting me here today.

In our communities, violence--whether it be physical, mental, social, spiritual, or sexual--can cause harm to the individual and the community by diminishing the basic human rights that other women and other citizens of Canada experience freely. This is especially true for aboriginal women in Canada.

The Native Women's Association has worked for years to support and empower aboriginal women and their families. We work to address the needs of aboriginal women in the areas of economics, health, justice, employment, and training. But most importantly, before we can even begin to address those kinds of needs, we are continually focusing on addressing the most important factor in their lives, which is ending the violence against aboriginal women, for without safety and the freedom to live a life without fear of violence, our women cannot pursue their goals in other areas, including education and employment. They cannot find the opportunity to be self-sufficient and support their families in a way that's positive and healthy for their children.

Unfortunately, ending violence against aboriginal women cannot be fixed in a day. There is no way to just overcome the issues plaguing aboriginal women without understanding the root causes of violence. Prior to colonization, our women were proud, strong contributing members of our community. Unfortunately, as a result of the imposition of patriarchal ideologies and the belief that women, whether they be aboriginal or non-aboriginal, were the property of their fathers, of their husbands, or of a man in general, our role as having real and genuine power, economic power, and authority in our communities was stripped from our women. We are still suffering from the legacy of that, having had to fight for years to try to regain access to that ability to function, to be contributing members of our communities, and to have authority and responsibility in our families.

This distorted view of women in general as being the property of their man is still prevalent in Canadian legislation.

Bill C-31 had the important impact in reinstating a number of aboriginal women, after women like my mother, Jeannette Corbière Lavell, and proud women like her, Yvonne Bédard, and Mary Two Axe Early went to court and had the courage to stand up and oppose this kind of violence from the government. We must also recognize that it is not just in our own communities. It's the legislative violence against our women, which leads to their being in vulnerable positions socially and economically, which leads to the violence in the communities.

It was through the work of these women that Bill C-31 came about, but it was not sufficient to address the needs. In a lot of communities, women who were reinstated with a second-class status were in fact subjected to continued persecution because they were seen as contributing to overcrowding and impinging on the already scarce resources in communities. So the most vulnerable members were therefore subjected to increased persecution in our own communities.

Aboriginal women in northern remote communities have a very unique experience, not the same as what we have in Toronto or the experience of a lot of the women around the table, in that we could take a taxi cab to a shelter, but if you have to get an airplane to fly out of your community, the option to just flee violence becomes extremely more complex. And without taking these very real circumstances into consideration, the governments, whether federal, provincial, or municipal, or our first nations governments, and our communities are not addressing the unique situation of aboriginal women or in fact protecting their right to live free from violence and to be safe.

Aboriginal women suffer multiple and varied forms of violence. One of the most important things to remember is that poverty contributes not only to hunger and inadequate housing but also to the level of violence in their lives. Over 40% of aboriginal women live in poverty. As a result, many are forced into situations of having unsafe living conditions in order to try to stay away from homelessness, a state in which they would be even less safe, and into dangerous life-threatening situations, and often the sex-trade industry, in which they're forced to sell their bodies on the street corners to try to feed their families. That's a situation nobody should have to be in, but it makes them extremely vulnerable, and thus contributes to the extremely high rates of violence.

The Native Women's Association of Canada and their Sisters in Spirit project reported this perception across society that a native woman who is pushed into those extremely dangerous circumstances through no fault of her own is somehow less human. Mothers of these women have reported being told by police that a woman who's missing is one less prostitute on their beat and that maybe it's better. She's one less welfare cheque, one less person sucking off the government tits. That's something we cannot allow.

We need to look at how they got into the situation and really understand. Utilizing the gender-based analysis of the Native Women's Association of Canada will help all of the members of our society to understand the unforeseen circumstances and impacts that are created by legislation that unfortunately discriminates and makes aboriginal women more vulnerable in society.

More recently, the Canadian government has taken a positive step by investing $10 million over a period of two years to address the issue of missing or murdered aboriginal women. We received a great number of e-mails stating how wonderful this was and we are very proud to have had that contribution. Unfortunately, the largest portion of the funding is being directed to justice systems, a generic RCMP missing persons database, and amendments to the Criminal Code. These actions will not address the root causes of violence against aboriginal women, but will provide only a temporary reassurance to a complex issue.

Most important, the work that is being carried on right now by aboriginal grassroots organizations, especially in places like Thunder Bay and communities where the women are living, will suffer. These organizations and these programs are not going to have the resources they need and the women are once again being overlooked when their need is the greatest.

The Ontario Native Women's Association is looking to the federal government for meaningful and timely action in addressing these root causes of violence. We have prepared and worked for a great many years with women at the community level, people on the front lines who are dealing with this violence that they face every day, to develop the strategic framework to end violence against aboriginal women in cooperation with the Ontario Federation of Indian Friendship Centres. We strongly recommend that the government look at, understand, implement, and take action on this strategic framework. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. It has been done. We need to start taking action.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you very much, Ms. Harvard. I'm so sorry that your time is up, but I am very interested in this strategic framework. I hope we can get to it in the course of our discussion.

Finally, Marlene Pierre, for the Robinson Superior Treaty Women's Council.

[Marlene Pierre, Advisor, Robinson Superior Treaty Women's Council]

Having appeared before standing committees many times in the past, I know how good it is for us that you have come here to Thunder Bay to hear from us. Nonetheless, I am not very pleased at getting five to seven minutes for this very important occasion, for being able to tell our story in a very real way.

I represent 14 reserve communities in the Robinson Superior Treaty area, and also seven off-reserve communities in our territory, spreading right up to Michipicoten and Collins and all those very isolated places in between.

Now I'm going to show you this Status of Women Canada women's program: I participated in the development of the first program for the Native Women's Association of Canada in developing the elements and principles of that policy. Today, when looking at what you fund now, it's a far, far cry from that: you don't do anything other than provide core funding to some groups.

You've provided us, Robinson Superior, with moneys to meet. Now we go to Canadian Heritage: we can get $25,000. We just got approved for that. The reason I'm telling you this is that all these things these women have said will be said again for another 40 years.

When the Berger commission came through northwestern Ontario in the late sixties, I went there as the president of the Ontario Native Women's Association to make a presentation on the effect of any pipeline and any of that kind of work in bringing in hoards of men. Soon, impregnation became a way of life for our women in those smaller communities. I was very forthright about what I saw and what I heard, and I told them at that time about what was happening to us.

I can go to any kind of conference, including this one, where each one of these women are saying the same damn thing that we said 50 and 60 years ago. Why? What are you people not doing that will have some meaningful impact?

I'm telling you that one thing is to re-look, to re-examine the Status of Women Canada funding criteria and the projects they will or won't fund. This government, including past Liberal governments, with the participation of the NDP...you people are not really, really recognizing what is needed in those little communities that I talk about. For those women.... You're not even going to get any real participation from our women in the development and implementation of the matrimonial property rights law that's forthcoming, because they're scared. They need people like me and these other women who will come out on the front lines and say: “Look, these women are scared to talk. They can't talk in their communities because they're going to get beat up”.

So not only do you have this other kind of physical violence, but you have all your systemic violence that is always directed to us. Who's the first to get locked up? Us. That's what happens to us. I've seen it. I've been there. I started this organization, Beendigen, in the seventies, and it bothers me greatly that these women are still suffering and dealing with inadequate funding resources. That's a shame. It's a shame on all of those people who are associated with these kinds of programs--and not just in Thunder Bay.

The other thing that still behooves me.... Why is there only one aboriginal-led program delivery in the whole of the north? You might have little smatterings of programs here and there, but there's nothing that can be of any real benefit to those women. They need the safe houses. They need all kinds of things.

I have with me three reports. I also have the workshop report from the founding conference of the Robinson Superior Treaty Women's Council that states exactly what the women were saying in that particular workshop. I'm leaving this with you. I'm sure it's going to end up on somebody's desk, but whether it gets read or not is another thing. But I want you to trust me: what I'm telling you, and what these papers say, is the truth.

We as the Robinson Superior Treaty Women's Council cannot rely on somebody to tell our story. We need to be able to be upfront and speak for ourselves, which we did at the gathering of the grandmothers. What a powerful conference. The women came out and cried. The grandmothers were crying because Dilico, the supposedly aboriginal-led child welfare agency, was taking their kids away left and right for money so that they could keep on hiring all these non-native people working—70% of them are non-native—and taking our kids away from us.

We had the aboriginal leadership there, John Beaucage. We had all of them there. They heard what these women were saying. “Oh, yes, we'll help you. We'll help you.” Where were they? For the last two years we haven't heard from them. He's now become the child advocate in Ontario. We still haven't heard from him. What is being done? What we see in the paper is that they're helping these child welfare agencies get more money to keep on taking our kids away. They're not hearing us. They're not listening to us. And they ignore us.

Our organization cannot continue to be a volunteer group. That's what we are. I wrote all the proposals to fund these gatherings. I'm retired, but I am called upon because there are no resources for our women out there. Every one of these women will agree the action has to come from the communities. The women themselves have to gather the tools among them, bring them in, and have discussions in the community about what they want. That's what we did. You have that information here. It's called the kitchen table tour. We went into every one of those communities and heard from those women, and they told us what they wanted. We have spread this around with, of course, our limited funds.

Finally, I know you folks are looking at hopefully revitalizing and whatever you have to do, but please include in your criteria funding for regional groups. Those include the Nishnawbe Aski Nation women's groups and ours—not just ONWA and not just NWAC, because they're mainstream and they hardly even exist in our territory. We exist in our territory. We do the work in our communities. Not just anybody can come in and tell.... I can't even go into Geraldton and say, “Well, you guys, do this”. No. Those women—and we've heard from them—told us what they want. We need to help them to develop those action plans into the things they vitally want.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you very much, Marlene.

I know that the committee welcomes the information that you bring, and we will certainly take the books back with us. I know that the committee will have many questions for you and for everyone. But please know that this committee is determined to go to as many communities as we possibly can. We've been limited in the funding we receive to do that, but we are determined.

We began our journey in the late spring. We've been to western Canada, Iqaluit, Labrador City, and the Maritimes, and now we're determined to talk to as many women and as many groups as we possibly can, because we know that you, the communities, have the real solutions, and we're very grateful that you agreed to come and speak with us.

Without further ado, for seven minutes, we'll begin with Ms. Simson, from the Liberal Party.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd also like to thank each and every witness who agreed to appear here.

I'd just like to pick up on what our chair had to say in terms of the time limitations we were given. This is something that was extremely important to the Status of Women committee, and the reality is.... I want to touch on something Mr. Bourret had to say about educating Canadians: I think that has to start with our own government officials. When I say “government”, I'm not referring just to Conservatives; I mean all sitting members. Because the reality is that to get this done.... It's something we wanted to do, and on behalf of my party I would like to apologize sincerely for the five to seven minutes, because this is a huge issue.

I think we need to be educated. In order to get this done.... We were declined the money to even go on the road; we thought it was important not to do it by teleconference. We thought the visuals were important, very important: we had to see and hear. It's a lot easier for us to get here than for a lot of people.... I was particularly interested in wanting to speak to the women, not just to the groups that do speak for them. That was of great interest to me, because that's where we learn.

Now, Mr. Bourret, with respect to what you had to say about educating Canadians, I couldn't agree with you more. In what form do you see that education coming?

We need to know what has happened in the past. I do commend the Conservative government for the apology that was recently given; it was very touching. But we have to build on that and we have to change it and quit talking. We've talked about this for decades, so could you give me an idea of what you see as a good educational start for the rest of us?

[Ron Bourret]

Yes. I'm fortunate to have worked for the federal government, the provincial government, and now for the municipal government, and I certainly have to praise the provincial government. When I worked for that government in corrections up north, in Fort Hope and Lansdowne and many of these places we're talking about, we in corrections were all required as an obligation to take some native sensitivity courses to get rid of the racism that was going on.

I find it incredible, after coming to work at the municipality, that I'm working with colleagues who are educated but who still use derogatory terms towards native people. I'm shocked that they have no idea that a single mom living in a basement apartment with water running through it won't come forward and complain, being a native woman. They're not understanding the whole issue. We did the same with the judges in the province. We've brought them aside so they understand that someone standing before them and being charged.... Perhaps that young girl standing before them and laughing is not actually laughing; she's fearful, and that's perhaps her way of expressing herself.

So to answer you in brief, we have to start in the classrooms, in grades four and five, to let people know who we're sharing this country with--or even younger. It has to start at a very young age. I'm a strong proponent of this. The City of Thunder Bay has hired a native liaison person, Anna Gibbon, and she's working really hard already at getting everybody on board.

That's what we have to change: the attitude we have. It's a bad attitude.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'm going to throw this out to whoever would like to answer, and very briefly, because I'd like as many responses as possible.

Again you've touched on something that I'm a big proponent of. I believe the days of the levels of government working in silos should be over. I see that as a huge obstacle. I think there can always be more funding, but there are so many different pockets...this is federal and that is provincial. I understand the sensitivities of stepping on one another's toes, but there has to be a way that we can do something in an integrated manner, because all levels of government are affected.

So all of them should be at the table, including the leadership of the aboriginal community. Do you see this as something that would be very positive if we could change that and work in an integrated manner?

Who would like to start?

[Christine Simard]

Yes, it needs to happen. Working in silos really sucks. Working at NAN, we undertook a major NAN women's development project, and we had four different funders to do what we had to do. We achieved our goals and what not. However, the report writing and the travelling to get to the communities and reporting back to the women's council and the chiefs and assembly was absolutely crazy. I was stuck in the bureaucracy most of the time, instead of spending my time in the communities working with the women. So integration, working together--all levels of government really need to do that.