No, I wouldn't know that.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was harassment.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #44 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was harassment.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
No, I wouldn't know that.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
That's okay. No problem. Thank you.
In terms of those statistics on harassment, have you noticed or observed the frequency of sexual harassment cases in particular on the rise? I wonder if there is a trend, and if so, in what direction that trend might be heading.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
It's hard for me to say. I think I mentioned that we've had 36 cases of harassment referred to us since 2008, and it's pretty consistent over that period, so I can't say that we've seen a trend per se.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
I wonder how often, if ever, you see cases of complaints by men where the harasser is a woman.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
I can't say I've seen any personally. Now, I wouldn't know the facts of every single one of our cases at the tribunal, as acting chair.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON
Should I be asking you, Mr. Langtry?
Sorry, I'm not sure who I should ask.
10:30 a.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Marie-Claude Morin
Unfortunately, your speaking time is up, Ms. Ambler. Thank you.
Now on to Ms. Sgro.
You have seven minutes.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Thank you very much.
I think we're all very much interested in similar information when it comes to the numbers, because it really says a lot.
Mr. Gupta, can you provide for us, from the tribunal's perspective—or the commission's perspective, Mr. Langtry—the breakdown of the numbers? You were pretty specific on cases, but how many of them resulted in.... I'm not saying that “victory” is the word, but how many of them resulted in successful treatment for the complainant and how many of them were found to be unsubstantiated?
I think it would be helpful for our committee as we go forward if you could supply us with that breakdown of those kinds of numbers for further discussion.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
Maybe I'll start with at least what's happened at the tribunal at the adjudication and then turn it over to my colleague here.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
To be very brief, I mentioned 36 cases involving harassment since 2008, or 36 complaints—sorry. In two cases, awards were rendered, which I would interpret as a finding of harassment; two were dismissed; three have had a hearing and are awaiting a decision by the adjudicator; 16 were settled through mediation; and the 13 remaining are currently in the inquiry process, meaning they're leading towards a hearing or mediation.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Maybe you could supply the committee with your notes, Mr. Gupta, so that we would have those, if you—
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
Most certainly—
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
—have them down, so that we would all have them for further reference.
10:30 a.m.
Vice-Chairperson, Acting Chairperson and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Human Rights Tribunal
Of course.
10:30 a.m.
Acting Chief Commissioner, Chief Commissioner's Office, Canadian Human Rights Commission
Yes. I think from a time point of view, I can certainly provide the information. I'm wondering whether it might be helpful to provide that after the fact—
10:30 a.m.
Acting Chief Commissioner, Chief Commissioner's Office, Canadian Human Rights Commission
—and I can answer also the question on the percentage of complaints that have been brought by men alleging a female perpetrator and that kind of information.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
10:35 a.m.
Acting Chief Commissioner, Chief Commissioner's Office, Canadian Human Rights Commission
I could provide both in the information. We do have the breakdown of cases and how they have been handled and resolved.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
In regard to the 1993 study that was done on work-related sexual harassment, there are quite alarming numbers when we see that 6% of the 400,000 women reported experiencing sexual harassment. The same study pointed out that 2.4 million women had experienced workplace sexual harassment in their working lives. Those were the ones who had responded to the survey; I suspect that there are many, many more who, if asked today on that larger issue, simply leave their place of employment.
Filing a complaint with the Human Rights Commission is, as far as I'm concerned, the avenue of last resort. Many women I have talked to, women who often raise these issues, just say that they weren't going to put themselves through it, when the chances of success.... It's the employee against the employer, and they're feeling intimidated. Again, some of that relates back to the RCMP issues and the frustrations that many of the female officers had.
Now, you've said that 7% of your complaints were from the RCMP and 8% were from the armed forces. I'm told the armed forces have made some fairly significant changes, at least on paper. Time will tell whether they're effective or not, but why is it...? Is it that both of those are male-dominated and both in an area that requires military attitudes, I suppose you could put it? Why is it that those two areas are where you're getting the highest numbers of complaints? Is there any particular point there?
10:35 a.m.
Acting Chief Commissioner, Chief Commissioner's Office, Canadian Human Rights Commission
Not necessarily, other than the conclusion that we had drawn: it is the hierarchical male-dominated organizations where we see the greatest proportionate number of complaints of sexual harassment. In both cases we will sometimes receive the complaints on the basis that concern has been expressed over the internal grievance process, because of the chain of command. That doesn't mean to say we always take the case, but we do receive a number in which a complaint or a concern is expressed, because of the chain of command, as to whether it's an independent and impartial grievance process and whether ultimately there is a neutral third party who can consider the complaint.
10:35 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
You don't necessarily just accept them; you review them and then can suggest that they seek adjudication somewhere else because of the chain-of-command issue.
10:35 a.m.
Acting Chief Commissioner, Chief Commissioner's Office, Canadian Human Rights Commission
Yes, we have the discretion under our legislation to refer it out. According to the way section 41 of our act reads, we are required to accept the complaint “unless”, and the first “unless” is if there is a redress mechanism, an alternate mechanism, or a grievance process that can handle the complaint. It's discretionary. We don't have to send it out to the other. When a complainant says, “Here are the reasons I don't want it to be sent out”, we can take the case and deal with it.