Status of Women Committee on Feb. 26th, 2013

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

I would quickly add that it was problematic that we heard that the RCMP was challenging the figure of 600 plus women, when in fact city police from across the country are involved with this matter as well and have their own figures. When we're talking about the importance of dealing with women, whether they're—

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I am sorry, but Ms. Truppe has a point of order.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, we're talking about sexual harassment in the federal workplace, and if we're going off on another tangent, we're not on the same page.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I could have said the same thing to Ms. James, but I understand your concerns.

Ms. Ashton, I would ask you to ensure that your questions deal directly with the subject of sexual harassment.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill, MB]

I don't think it's a tangent at all. I'll pass it on to my colleague.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I see we have another point of order.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

On a point of order, sorry to interrupt, but I just heard you say you could have said the same thing to Ms. James. What did I say that was out of line with regard to RCMP and so forth?

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Yes, in fact, your questions focused much more on Bill C-42 than on sexual harassment. I let you continue because I thought that at some point there would be a link to sexual harassment. That is what happened. I asked the same thing of Ms. Ashton.

Do you have any other questions, Ms. James?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I just find it funny that you singled me out when other members of this committee have also mentioned Bill C-42 and the effects and the direction that bill has taken. So I would respectfully ask you to take that back.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I refuse to withdraw my comments. I am sorry, Ms. James.

In fact, other members discussed Bill C-42 in relation to sexual harassment.

This is unfortunate because the commissioner is with us and we are wasting time. I will repeat what I told you. I thought you were taking a lot of time, but I listened to you thinking that at some point, you would make the link. That is what happened. I think Ms. Ashton did the same thing.

Does that answer your question?

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Actually, no. I would still like you to withdraw that comment, because I feel that you have singled me out on this committee for referencing a bill that has been spoken about at this committee by other members. I think that is completely inappropriate from the chair, who is supposed to be neutral and unbiased.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

I am indeed very neutral and unbiased, as you have seen since I became chair of the committee, in March of last year. I have always made sure each party is treated fairly on this committee. Therefore, I will not allow my credibility on such things to be called into question.

Ms. James, I am sorry, but I will not withdraw what I said. I explained myself and that is that. I am sorry.

Ms. Day now has the floor.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I will ask a few short questions. I don't know how much time I have left.

Mr. McPhail stated that in-person training was very important to prevent harassment. Recommendation No. 10 focuses a lot on online training. We were told that 94% of people would be taking it.

I will ask you a few questions very quickly. How do you ensure this training is provided? How is it evaluated? Is the training different for regular, civilian, subordinate or management staff? What could happen if a person refused to take this training or did not complete it?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Thank you for the question.

The training is provided to all categories of employees. Everyone has to take this training. Regarding evaluation, I can tell you the following.

That's done according to the percentage of people who are taking it and succeeding at it, and the response we're getting from the members who are taking it.

We're talking about online training here, but I want to go back to the face-to-face training, the in-person training that is being left out of the equation, because we do, in that training, in our supervisors, our managers, and our executives, who are all going through these training processes for their new duties, all feature face-to-face, in-person training, discussions, and testing on leadership and on harassment as well. It's not to be left just to the computers and online training. There's an in-person component to it.

[The Chair, NDP, Marie-Claude Morin]

Thank you. I am going to have to stop you there.

We have one last five-minute period for questions.

Ms. Truppe, you have the floor.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Commissioner Paulson, for being here.

Earlier today, my colleague Madam Bateman was talking about the number of officers being trained to investigate harassment. Some are also being trained as harassment advisers. That's very important, because it shows that there are multiple ways of resolving an issue.

Could you describe the harassment advisers in a little more detail and provide an update for the timeline of integrating them into the workplace?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Okay. Those are part of the respectful workplace initiatives that the COs are delivering province by province by province. I know that in British Columbia, which is perhaps what some people were referring to, there was discussion of 100 additional investigators being trained. Those are investigators who have substantive day jobs and who, over and above their police responsibilities, are being asked and trained to address the sort of harassment backlog, as it were, in British Columbia.

The harassment advisers are being brought into the workplace. Again, in some cases, these are full-time positions where the numbers of personnel support that, and in other cases these are part-time duties, additional duties in terms of their substantive duties. As we roll out the respectful workplace program division by division within the next few months—and I know that the timelines are in the action plan—we will be monitoring that and providing reports to folks on it.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

That's great. Thank you.

Do you know how many have been trained so far? Is there a number?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

I'm sure there is, but I'm afraid I don't know it.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

That's okay.

We keep hearing that one of the major factors in preventing sexual harassment in the workplace is clear leadership. During the last meeting we had with the RCMP, they mentioned that you had begun the Every Employee Engaged initiative, I think in July, to emphasize key points on leadership and a respectful workplace. Can you update us on the status of that initiative?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

Thank you, Chair.

That initiative was to satisfy myself that every employee of the organization was having these issues put before them in such a way that the supervisor could be satisfied by looking into the whites of their eyes, making sure they're having that conversation, and getting feedback from them. That has gone on. I'm satisfied that this has taken place across the country.

My corps sergeant major is adopting a new role and prominence in the organization and is, with his warrant group, who are the sergeant majors across the force, taking on the follow-through of that initiative to make sure that new employees, as they come in, are sat down and met by supervisors. Specific issues relating to harassment, job performance, the mission, and a respectful workplace are all canvassed with them. That's going very well.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

Have you noticed any changes in the supervisors or managers as a result of the discussions?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

As I've gone across the country and I've met with supervisors, I have noticed that they're stepping up a little bit. Some of them have some reservations and are looking forward to some of the changes that will come forward with Bill C-42, but I have noticed a renewed attentiveness to supervisory and managerial duties.

[Susan Truppe, Conservative, London North Centre, ON]

My colleague across the way was talking about the mandatory online training and how 94% had taken this training. Have you noticed any effects from the training?

[Commr Bob Paulson]

There's just a broader awareness. I don't know that we needed the training to get the awareness of the issue; I think the issue is front and centre in every Canadian's mind. But yes, I have noticed an awareness of and a sensitivity to the issues of a respectful workplace and how prevention is key, including discussing the issues with supervisors, raising objections with supervisors, engaging with supervisors. That's coming.