Status of Women Committee on April 21st, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Hello everyone, and welcome. We are ready to begin the meeting.

Today we have, at the beginning, 20 minutes of committee business, followed by the RCMP and the Department of Public Safety.

In terms of committee business, the first thing I want to talk about is the budget. You probably had the budget circulated to you. This is, as before, the budget we need to approve in order to begin our study on gender-based analysis. This is expected to get us through the study.

If we find the expenses that are detailed have to be reallocated, this is allowable. If we need to have more money, we can request a supplementary amount. Otherwise we need to approve it before it goes ahead.

Could I have a motion to approve the budget as presented?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'll move the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

So moved by Ms. Damoff.

Is there any discussion on the budget?

(Motion agreed to)

The second item is the brief that was sent out for posting on the web. I hope you've had a chance to review it. Well, there's a news release and there's a brief.

First is this letter that says:

Dear Colleagues, As many of you are aware, the Committees website was recently redesigned.

It goes through how they will give their input.

Are there any comments on the brief?

Do I need a motion to post that?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Andrea McCaffrey]

If you're going to have just agreement by the committee—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Is there general agreement by the committee?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Let's look at the news release.

Is there any commentary on the news release? You guys are awesome.

That's great. We will go ahead and release this.

Do you have any comments, Ms. Sansoucy?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I apologize, Madam Chair, but I am standing in for a permanent member of the standing committee. I have to find my bearings.

I have a few questions about the draft of the press release.

The English version does not seem to have a hyperlink to the online course, while the French version does indeed have a hyperlink. I just want to make sure that a hyperlink for the online course is added to the English version.

Also, in the press release, there are quite a few quotation marks and we're not sure why they are there. In fact, these quotation marks do not seem to frame a quote or reference a document. There are some in the second and third paragraphs.

I would also like to know when this press release is set to be issued, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

The first question is on

the hyperlinks.

If we can have the clerk check and make sure the hyperlinks are going to the program, that would be a good thing to do.

[Laura Munn-Rivard, Committee Researcher]

Hello, Ms. Sansoucy.

You are saying that the hyperlinks do not work. Is that it?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

The French version has a hyperlink to the online course, but the English version does not.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

It isn't in blue, but the hyperlink is underlined.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

It isn't in the version we received.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

In the English version I have the hyperlink is underlined. I can look into it.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In any case, there is a version going around without a hyperlink.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

That must be a different version. I will double-check the hyperlinks.

You also had a question about when the press release would be issued and a question about some quotes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

With the word “plus”, we see a symbol

and then the word. You see it there, there, and plus.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

The quotation marks are there because those are quotations.

I'm sorry, but I only have a copy of the English. It says:

“At the federal level, gender-based analysis plus”.

That's the second paragraph.

There's a hyperlink in the second paragraph, and the quotations are taken from the text found at that link.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Okay.

Essentially, there are parts of sentences that are quotations. That's strange.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

Yes.

Would you prefer a footnote?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I don't understand why there are quotation marks.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

The hyperlink in the second paragraph will bring you to the source of these quotations, but I could include a footnote at the bottom to make it more clear.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes, please, otherwise it's not clear.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

Okay.

I'll put a footnote at the bottom of the page for these two quotations.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

We're talking about footnotes at the bottom of a news release.

We could also just turn them into a sentence.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

Do you want me to write it differently?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

No.

For example, there's part of a sentence that says, “an analytical tool the federal government uses to advance gender equality in Canada”. I don't think we need copyright approval or need to put that part in quotation marks.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

If it's taken directly from a website, that's the rule.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

It's even stranger in French.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

Okay.

Do you want me to rewrite the sentences without putting footnotes at the bottom of the page?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I think that's a better option in a news release.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

So the committee will add that as well?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I think the committee would like to see it again if you change the wording to remove the quotes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I don't think the rules for writing a news release are the same as those for a university paper that contains quotations.

I'd like to know the publication date, please.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

Sorry, what publication are you talking about?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

When will the news release be published?

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

The date is indicated at the top of the page. April 15 is there now, but we'll add the publication date when the time comes.

[The Clerk]

When the time comes to publish the news release, we'll change the date.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Will you inform the committee members?

[The Clerk]

Of course.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

For the press release, you're going to verify the link on the English version and rephrase the ones that have citations, and you'll reissue it to the committee.

[Laura Munn-Rivard]

Yes. That's perfect.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Is there anything else to add with respect to the brief?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

No.

That is our committee business. Now we go to our speakers.

We're going to suspend for just a minute, while we bring our speakers in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We have Angela Connidis and Lori MacDonald from the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. We also have Shirley Cuillierrier from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

We will begin with the Department of Public Safety. I believe you have prepared 10 minutes for us, and you may proceed.

[Lori MacDonald, Assistant Deputy Minister, Emergency Management and Programs Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you, Madam Chair and honourable committee members, for your invitation to appear before the Standing Committee on the Status of Women and participate in this study on violence against young women and girls.

Public Safety Canada is acutely aware that violence against women and girls is a serious concern for many Canadian families and communities. It is an important responsibility, and we must all to work together to prevent and stop violence against women and girls.

At the department we are dedicated to supporting and improving the safety of our communities across Canada and my colleagues at all levels of government and organizations, educators, family, and youth to help prevent violence against women and girls.

I am joined today by my colleagues Angela Connidis, director general, crime prevention, corrections and criminal justice, at Public Safety's community safety and countering crime branch, and Shirley Cuillierrier, chief superintendent of national aboriginal policing and crime prevention services at the RCMP.

To keep Canadians safe, we work at different levels. For instance, crime prevention is a pillar of Public Safety Canada's work with an increased focus on the specific needs of marginalized communities and at-risk groups.

As you know, the depth and scope of this particular issue have many facets. Therefore, I would like to present several initiatives that address violence against women and girls in which the department and the RCMP play a key federal role.

To begin, the national crime prevention service within the RCMP has developed a national youth strategy for 2015-2017 that identified four priority issues: bullying and cyber-bullying, intimate partner violence, drugs and alcohol, and youth radicalization to violence. Some of these initiatives include the Centre for Youth Crime Prevention website, RCMPTalks, the youth leadership workshop, and delivery of social media campaigns.

In addition, the primary objective of Public Safety's national crime prevention strategy is to develop and disseminate practical knowledge to help governments and institutions, non-profit organizations, and local communities to implement effective crime prevention strategies.

The national crime prevention strategy is based on the premise that well-designed interventions can have a positive influence on behaviours and that crimes can be reduced or prevented by addressing risk factors that lead to offending. Successful interventions have been shown to reduce not only victimization but also the social and economic cost that result from criminal activities and the cost related to processing cases in the criminal justice system.

Since 2008, based on the research of what is known about risk factors, delinquency, and future offending, the national crime prevention strategy has focused on the following priority groups: indigenous peoples and northern communities, children aged six to 11, young people aged 12 to 17, and young adults aged 18 to 24. As well, in some instances we consider supporting projects involving high-risk offenders and youth gangs.

This strategy funds the implementation and evaluation of crime prevention projects in communities across the country with an annual envelope of approximately $41.9 million for project funding.

Although the department's programs and initiatives are designed to improve public safety, our priority issues are not uniquely gender focused. For example, under the crime prevention strategy, our current priority issues include youth gangs and youth violence, drug-related crimes, hate crimes, bullying and cyber-bullying, and exiting the sex trade.

Nonetheless, various crime prevention projects strengthen prevention interventions to address gender-based issues related to crime and violence in collaboration with, and in strong partnership with, locally based women's organizations, the best place to address these issues of violence and victimization against women and girls.

Prevention programs and strategies aim to reduce risk factors associated with crime, and are linked to violence against women in Canada. They also increase the protective factors or build resiliency in the most affected communities.

Since 2008, the National Crime Prevention Strategy has focused on conducting impact evaluations and reporting on the results and impacts of selected crime prevention projects in Canada. Many projects have demonstrated positive results in reducing risk factors associated with violence and crime.

As the committee has shown an interest in the nature and extent of cyber-violence against young girls and women and best practices to address and prevent it, I would like to bring particular attention to the efforts our department has undertaken to expand our knowledge of the issue and further understand what interventions can work to prevent the victimization of young girls and women.

Public Safety has a continued commitment to find effective approaches to prevent bullying and cyber-bullying. We are currently working to identify best practices and innovative initiatives to build on evidence-based cyber-bullying prevention and intervention practices. This knowledge is shared with policy-makers and practitioners to help inform advice on projects that can be funded under the strategy in the future and to deepen our understanding of the issues, particularly among young girls and women.

Our efforts in relation to cyber-bullying have focused mainly on two approaches: promoting awareness and implementing programs to assist youth, parents, and educators in combatting bullying. Public Safety has developed the get cyber safe awareness campaign to educate Canadians about Internet security and steps to protect themselves online. In 2014 the department launched the “stop hating online” anti-bullying awareness campaign to raise awareness among Canadians of the impact of cyber-bullying and how this behaviour amounts to criminal activity. The department also supports the initiative www.bullyingawarenessweek.org, with the theme “stand up to bullying”. The campaign emphasizes the need for all Canadians to speak out against bullying and cyber-bullying.

For example, since October 2014, the strategy has funded a $2.1-million five-year project to implement a leadership and resiliency project in Newfoundland and Labrador that will use the leadership and resiliency program, know as LRP, to enhance participants' internal strengths and resiliency while preventing involvement in substance use and violence. The organization delivering the program, Waypoints, has selected the LRP model to address the priority issues of school-based bullying within the greater St. John's area.

You may have heard about the leadership and resiliency program as part of the emergency debate on indigenous affairs recently, where it was referenced as a project we are supporting in La Loche, Saskatchewan.

Another initiative is the aboriginal community safety development contribution program. Aboriginal women are a priority, as violence against aboriginal women is commonplace in Canada, where societal indifference often leaves aboriginal women at greater risk of violence, particularly intimate partner violence or violence perpetrated against women because of their gender and identity.

Public Safety's community safety planning initiative helps indigenous communities understand the underlying issues that result in the victimization of indigenous women and girls. It also helps community members work together to define risks that lead to crime and helps them build on the strengths in their community to respond to those risks.

As a parallel and supportive activity to both the upcoming missing and murdered indigenous women inquiry and the calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the community safety planning initiative supports community efforts to heal and to become healthier and safer places to live and raise families.

I will now refer to the online sexual exploitation of children, which is another issue faced by young women and girls. Statistics Canada reports that sexual violations against children have risen in recent years, despite an decrease in violent crime in Canada. Over 4,000 child sexual exploitation offences were reported in 2014, a 6% increase over 2013. In addition, the number and rate of child pornography incidents continued to rise, up 41% in 2013-14. Cybertip.ca is Canada's tip line to report the suspected online sexual exploitation of children, and they have observed an increase in reporting, particularly of child sexual abuse on the Internet. Research indicates that girls are more frequently the victims of a sexual offence than boys, representing 81% of child victims. A study released by the Canadian Centre for Child Protection in January 2016, titled “Child Sexual Abuse Images on the Internet: A Cybertip.ca Analysis”, examined 43,762 images and videos classified as child pornography. These findings corroborated that 80.42% of the children are girls.

Lastly, budget 2016 proposed to provide $35 million over five years, starting this fiscal year, with $10 million per year ongoing to establish an office of the community outreach and counter-radicalization coordinator. The office will provide leadership on Canada's response to radicalization to violence; coordinate federal, provincial, territorial, and international initiatives; and support community outreach and research. The impact of radicalization of violence on young women and girls will be an important component to the outreach and research.

We are encouraged that this committee is gathering valuable information and perspectives, and believe in the ability to work together and establish mechanisms for further co-operation.

We'd like to thank you for the opportunity to be here today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you very much for a very good speech.

We're going to turn to Shirley Cuillierrier. She's the director general with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

[Superintendent Shirley Cuillierrier, Director General, National Aboriginal Policing and Crime Prevention Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

I don't have any opening remarks, Madam Chair. I was deferring—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right, that's okay. I should have given you more time for yours—

[Lori MacDonald]

No, that's quite all right. There's more time for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

—but you'll find the questions will roll.

We're going to start with our first round of questioning. Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I'm sharing my time.

Thank you to all of you for coming. One of the things we're looking at in our study is hypersexualization. We've been having trouble incorporating it into how we get responses from witnesses, how we even deal with it as a committee. Things like objectification of women and the normalization of violence against young women in our media.

Do you see any gaps in programming, because that's also tied to cyber-bullying and I'm wondering if that's incorporated into any of the strategies you have or if you see any gaps in what you are doing, where some work needs to be done?

[Lori MacDonald]

I'll take a first stab at the question.

To begin, I think it's an area that does need more study and more discussion with respect to what the issues are, how we address those issues, and how we move them forward. When we look at our crime prevention programs, we look at different models that are available to address specific issues.

I'll give you a small example, and I hope it will make the point in terms of the question you've asked.

For some of the programs we look at, in terms of the models, we don't want them just to address the basic issue, whether that's a substance abuse issue or a bullying issue, but to address those other underlying factors that are in place. We recently supported a crime prevention program in B.C. that specifically addressed issues of sexualization, the LGBTQ community, and also issues of new immigrants, different nationalities and ethnicities. This was all involved in this particular group to try to get at the underlying issues that are causing problems in the lives of those children and youth. Then how do we address them?

I'll turn to my colleagues to see if they have anything they'd like to add to that question.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I agree with my colleague. It's an area that requires a better understanding to properly address. In the RCMP we feel that youth engagement is key to building self-esteem and the protective factors that we see some young people missing out on. Eventually there's the potential for such young people to be victimized.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

As you're one of the few female members of the RCMP, how much of a challenge do you think young women and girls face in communities to come forward with issues because they aren't able to go to a female officer?

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but if I'm a 13-year-old girl, I might be intimidated by reporting the issues to a man versus a woman. Is there any need to perhaps look at that and try to address it in communities?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

The hypothetical situation of a 13-year-old girl in her family or in the school, when we talk about protective factors, we hope she does have an influential female in her life whom she can speak to. It would be incumbent upon that adult to bring it to the police because there are situations in every profession whereby a person who is not feeling comfortable speaking to a man would seek a female colleague and have that discussion. I think at a community level, a young girl might seek out someone—a teacher, a public health nurse, or a friend—and get advice, seek the help, and then it would get reported to the police.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

I'm sharing my time and I'm sorry for taking up too much time, Eva.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

That's not a problem.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to all for your presentations.

Could you please give us a breakdown of the national strategy for the protection of children from sexual exploitation on the Internet? Does the strategy function as an educational tool? Does it provide preventive measures? Does it administer proactive measures for victims and respond to incidents?

What are your thoughts?

[Angela Connidis, Director General, Crime Prevention, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

I just want to be clear on the program. You're speaking with respect to the national strategy for the protection of children?

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

That's it exactly.

[Angela Connidis]

That's funding that's allocated to departments. In government we tend to find that a number of departments will work on portions of an issue, and it can be very difficult to coordinate what they're doing and coordinate the programs. Part of the strategy is that the funding goes to Public Safety, the RCMP, the Department of Justice, and the Canadian Centre for Child Protection—which, I have to say, I don't know very much about since this is not a program that falls within my area—to help those departments identify their particular niche and to determine how they will work together to develop research and understanding in those areas.

With regard to the particular programs that each department funds, I would have to get more information for you, unless any of my colleagues have that.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I don't know if somebody can answer this question, but are there any gaps within the existing framework of this strategy that prevent you from adequately assessing threats and providing protection from sexual exploitation?

[Angela Connidis]

I will have to get back to you on that as well.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Okay.

Ms. MacDonald.

[Lori MacDonald]

I would just say that with any new strategy, particularly in this field, which is evolving and changing, I think the strategy has to evolve and change as we learn more about what's happening, as we're exposed more to technology changes, and as children become more exposed to what's available and the different types of electronic capacities. As technologies such as Snapchat, BBMs, and other kinds of technology that children are exposed to evolve, the strategy also has to evolve to keep up to the different influences on children. I can't speak directly to the gaps in the strategy, if they exist, but certainly it would be something we would absolutely want to take into consideration as we go forward.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

Now we're going to Ms. Harder.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much.

My question is for Lori and Angela to answer. I have a question with regard to cyber-bullying and strategies for dealing with this. I'm just wondering if you can explain to me how local and national law enforcement work co-operatively in order to track down incidents of cyber-bullying or sexual extortion when they happen in another jurisdiction, with the understanding that while of course some take place here in Canada some are elsewhere but still impact our nation.

[Lori MacDonald]

Thank you for the question.

I'm actually going to turn to my colleague Shirley here, who has some information she'd like to share with respect to that.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

In terms of cyber-bullying, as I referenced earlier, we take a proactive approach by working with our police officers across the country who work with schools. We've designed some learning tools to help the police officers as well as the youth and the teachers.

One program we recently worked on is called the BullyText. In fact, we were at an innovation fair yesterday and got an honourable mention for the work we've been doing. Essentially it's scenarios, and it's literally texting, and girls and boys can use it. It walks you through scenarios, and if you're bullying online, it gives you different options. Eventually, if you keep being a bully, you're told you're being a bully and you are kicked out of the game, whereas if you're answering in a proactive, respectful way, it starts to acknowledge you. Different scenarios are built in. We've received excellent feedback from teachers and youth alike. That's not to mention that it's a great tool for our police officers to use when they go into schools to talk about cyber-bullying.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

I'd like a really quick point of clarification from you, Chair. I don't know if you can answer for me, but I'm wondering, just so I know how to focus my questions. Within the RCMP there are other initiatives. Are we going to be hearing from the RCMP's National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre at all?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We have the ability to hear from anybody, because we've deferred the study to September, and we'll be putting together the work plan. If you would like to submit to the clerk the names of people you'd like to hear from, you can do that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay. I'm going to assume that's a yes, that we're going to hear from them, too.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

The analyst says yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's excellent.

I do have another question, and I'm not sure whether or not you'll be able to answer this, but hopefully you will to some extent. I recently met with an undercover police officer in my area. One of his concerns had to do with access to information online and how, if a company uses a database in the United States to store its information, that information is not admissible here in Canada. Legally we don't have access to it. Are you familiar with what I'm saying here?

For instance, for Facebook accounts, I'm told that we're not able to access any of that information because it's hosted in the United States. For mobile phones, etc., all of that data is hosted in the United States. That situation makes it incredibly difficult to solve crimes, particularly with regard to trafficking of people and trafficking of drugs, which were his two concerns.

I'm wondering if you can comment on this at all.

[Lori MacDonald]

I don't have any level of expertise on that particular issue. There are information-sharing issues that come into play in countries outside Canada. I don't know about the policing part.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

Our commissioner has talked a lot about this, and being able to access information. I am stepping out of my realm of expertise, but if in the future you summon someone from the National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre, they would certainly have the expertise to answer that type of question.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Would you have the mandate to interrupt online conduct with regard to exploitation that's taking place on the Internet?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

Now you're starting to get into police methods. Again, it's not my area of expertise. Because it is a specialty, I'm going to defer that question to someone else who's summoned from the RCMP in the future.

[Angela Connidis]

I would say that you're starting to get into the area of people's personal privacy. In any case, when law enforcement officers want to intercept personal communications, they would usually need a warrant or the authority of a court. You'd have to show reasonable grounds for interfering in someone's private information.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Shirley, I think you would be best to comment on this.

Can you explain for us how policing on reserves is managed? Can you explain some of the barriers to policing on reserves and how these barriers might be overcome?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

The RCMP polices approximately 630 aboriginal communities in Canada, on reserve, off reserve. In my experience, the best way to meet the needs of the citizens of the community is for the RCMP to recruit aboriginal people to be members of the RCMP. Our commissioner has set high targets for recruitment. Currently, 8% of the RCMP staff is aboriginal.

We are careful in choosing the officers that police aboriginal communities. In my experience, having the right officer police communities is key. These officers need to be able to talk about some of the challenges that go beyond policing issues. They are often rooted in social issues that sometimes result in criminal justice issues downstream.

As we're talking about the national inquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women, I can tell you that we've been hearing a lot of root-cause concerns that have a downstream effect on policing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Sansoucy, you have seven minutes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My questions have to do with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

The Legal Strategy Coalition on Violence Against Indigenous Women

analyzed a 2014 RCMP report on missing and murdered aboriginal women. The report explains that the estimates of the number of missing and murdered aboriginal women underestimates the extent of the crisis. I'll ask my three questions all at once, and then you can answer.

Can you explain the inaccuracies in identifying the aboriginal victims, in both the RCMP data and in the data regarding police practices? Do you think it's possible that some aboriginal people were identified as being non-aboriginal, which could skew the national homicide inquiry?

Furthermore, what actions have been put in place internally to investigate and prevent allegations of sexual assault against aboriginal woman by members of the RCMP and other police forces?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

Thank you for your question.

I don't remember when we started to review the data, but I know that our review concluded in 2012, and our first report was published in 2014.

In the beginning, we were able to review the data thanks to an agreement between the RCMP and 299 other police forces. In total, 300 police forces provided data, and we reviewed it. Certainly, at that time, it wasn't clear, in the files, whether the missing or murdered young woman or girl was aboriginal. There was a gap there. In the 2015 report, we were able to review all the files and specify whether individuals were truly aboriginal. That's why there is a difference between the figures in the 2014 and 2015 reports.

With respect to the people who were improperly identified, it's clear that in the past 20 years, Canadian police practices did not require that people be identified based on their membership in a particular group. The data we collected aimed to determine whether these people were female or male, for example. Since our 2014 report, the data from all Canadian police forces identify aboriginal women, whether they are Métis, Inuit, or first nations.

As for the investigation and prevention measures, we ensured that there was better supervision of investigators. We implemented the National Missing Persons Strategy. In addition, we updated our policies regarding investigations of homicides and missing persons.

In terms of prevention, we organized a number of media campaigns, using posters and television ads. We worked a lot with the five national aboriginal organizations, including the Assembly of First Nations and the Native Women's Association of Canada. The objective is to develop tools that can be used in the future, for example, in training RCMP officers. That said, when I work on something, I like to share it with other police forces.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Do I have time remaining, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Yes, you have three minutes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Okay.

The Association of Alberta Sexual Assault Services notes that sexual assault has a very low reporting rate and that 97% of assaults are apparently never reported to the police.

Has the RCMP looked at why women who are victims of assault do not report to the police?

What changes or reforms do you think could be made to improve these statistics? Have you looked at why the reporting rate is still so low?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

It all depends on the crime.

Take the case of a victim of sexual assault. Sometimes, it is a matter of support available. Some people are truly afraid of talking about what happened. In some cases, the victims want to talk to the police but do not want to go to court. That's an important decision to make. Sometimes, there's a lack of trust. People may not even know where to go or who to talk to. I gave the example of a victim who might confide in a teacher or a friend.

That said, we hope that people report these crimes to the police, since it's important to do so and these are very serious crimes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

People who work in homes for domestic violence victims note that, in the early stages, the victim has so little self-esteem that, I assume, she ends up accepting the situation she's in.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Are you done?

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Yes, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Okay.

We'll go to my colleague Ms. Sahota.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you for being here. I'm going to switch the conversation over a bit to the human trafficking that you have referred to in your report.

You talk about vulnerability and certain demographics—women and young girls who are marginalized or socially ostracized. I want to get more details of who these people are. Who do you find is marginalized? Where in Canada are we finding the most vulnerable young women?

I'd like more of your thoughts about how we can go further into the prevention approach: prevention, protection, prosecution, and partnerships. What does this look like? What exactly is this model? How do you prevent these crimes from happening to these particular young women and who are they?

[Angela Connidis]

I don't have a lot of specific statistics for you, but in general we find an overrepresentation of indigenous women involved in the human trafficking trade. It's not an international issue. It can be very much domestic. You are also getting women who are involved with drugs and addictions. They are your other vulnerable group. Immigrant women can also be a vulnerable group.

With respect to the immigrant women, there are mechanisms in place to provide them some protection for reporting. What often happens is that immigrant women will be afraid to report because they may lose their status, or maybe they don't have their status. Maybe they've been sucked into this trade and all their status papers have been taken away.

Also, there are protections for immigrant women who do report sexual exploitation or human trafficking in particular. As well, I believe that when police forces identify areas where they think human trafficking is happening, they will alert some of the victim supports around that by saying that they will be breaking up this ring and they will need those services.

It would usually be the more vulnerable in society, those with drug addictions or in poverty and particularly aboriginal women, who are overrepresented in trafficking victims.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you.

Does anyone have anything to add?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

What I could add is that in 2014 the RCMP undertook a report on project safekeeping, which is available to the public. I would be happy to share it with the committee. It focused on domestic human trafficking.

There are some points in it that are actually quite helpful in terms of understanding, but my biggest observation of human trafficking is that it is probably very close to sexual assault in being the most under-reported crime in this country. It's very underground. It's one that people have a hard time wrapping their heads around in terms of what the crime actually is. We struggle to get people to come forward and talk about this being a crime.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

You were mentioning that for immigrant populations or indigenous populations you are helping women come forward. How do you go about doing that?

How do they know where they can seek these services if somebody has taken their papers away or is holding a threat of that sort, or when it's linked to cyber-bullying? We have seen some of that. People's pictures or other things that they would not want to be released are held against them, and they're lured into the trafficking trade because of these things. How do you prevent that? To me, that's really—

[Angela Connidis]

For raising awareness, that's an excellent question, because how do you reach them if they're being hidden away?

Part of it is through the victim services. Provinces generally operate the victim services and they will do outreach. They will try to identify people who they feel are vulnerable and raise awareness that way. Federally, we have a national office for victims, with a toll-free line. Victims can call. We can refer them to services.

It is a challenge to raise the awareness that if they report we will have some safety features for them.

[Lori MacDonald]

Perhaps I could add to that. The other thing we look at, too, is working across departments. We would work with Immigration Canada, as an example, in terms of some of the programs it has at the front-line level for working with new immigrant women coming to Canada. There's also a vast network across the provincial and municipal levels for women's services and services that actually assist people who come into contact with that kind of crime. At the same time, we also struggle a bit with the fact that lots of times people don't even recognize they're being trafficked in those kinds of situations.

One of the things we're launching is a crime prevention program called exiting prostitution. One of the things we've asked people to look at, who put project proposals in, is for the marginalized group that comes into that trade, those pieces that have an influence, so those would be women who are victimized either through trafficking or women who are growing up in environments where they have no social supports, where they have no parental guidance, where substance abuse and abuse is commonplace. We'd like them to link all those pieces back, when they're developing their models, so that we can better both influence and intervene, then put programs and services in place to continue to support those kinds of things.

It's not directly related to human trafficking, but it is related because all of those factors come into play. When we want to put an intervention model in place we want to be able to address as many factors as we can.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's your time, sorry.

We'll go over to Ms. Vecchio for five minutes.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thanks very much.

The first question I have goes to Shirley. You indicated that 8% of the employees you have with the RCMP are first nations. I know that currently the population is a little less than 5% for all of Canada. Are we focusing on putting more people into the first nations, or is that kind of looking at the entire 8%, which would mean 3% would probably be throughout the rest of the units? Do you understand where I'm going with this question?

Are we putting more resources into the first nations because we recognize there are some issues with victimization and the suicide issues we're having right now, or have had for some time? Are we putting more resources into those communities? When we're looking at that 8%, is that saying that we have 8% throughout Canada?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

It is 8% across Canada. However, to your example, when something like the La Loche, Saskatchewan, shooting happens the RCMP mobilizes first in Saskatchewan, and if necessary, we mobilize different parts of the country, based on what the threat is or the crime that's occurred, or whether it's a disaster.

However, the 8% is across the country.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay. Fantastic. Thanks very much.

I'll move on to public safety as well as the RCMP. We recognize there is a lot of victimization. What kind of training are our police officers getting? When we bring in the fact that we're looking at immigrant populations and aboriginals, is there specialized training for that as well, because we're dealing with some different cultures and communities? What are we doing there to make sure that our first-line workers have all the training they need?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

In the RCMP, recruiting is foundational in terms of our organization. We need to reflect the Canadian population. The commissioner has testified at numerous committees in terms of his targets around recruiting women, visible minorities, and aboriginal people. We have those internal employee committees in the RCMP as well, even to generate ideas and innovation with these groups.

I always reflect back to my earlier days as a constable working in the community. I am first nations, so young first nations women have to see themselves in me. It's great when you become a role model, because for most Mounties in the RCMP, when you talk to them, that's how they were influenced to join the RCMP. It was through the members that they have seen over their childhood. I think that's a critical piece in terms of being able to deliver a culturally competent police service. You have to be reflective of the country that you police.

In terms of actual training, we have intensified, or I guess have a higher level of training for, let's say, forensic interviewing of children for sexual assaults. I mentioned earlier that we've developed a missing persons' strategy as a result of the missing and murdered indigenous women—a report back in 2014. We're currently developing a course to have a higher level of expertise around investigators investigating missing persons. We have a variety of courses that are offered through the Canadian Police College here in Ottawa for all police services in Canada, whether it be on violence in a relationship....

Those are some examples that I can give you. It's an absolute in terms of investigating multi-jurisdictional or complex investigations that either are throughout the country or, in some cases, international. An example, perhaps, would be a human trafficking case. There is a higher level of expertise for some of these areas as opposed to years ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we're going over to Ms. Vandenbeld for five minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much for coming, and thank you for your excellent intervention.

I'm looking through the different programs that you outlined. There's the national youth strategy, and you mentioned the national crime prevention strategy. In terms of the national crime prevention strategy, you said it's not uniquely gender focused. If I look at the national youth strategy, a lot of this is about preventing youth from becoming perpetrators of violence, but not specifically about youth victims of violence.

In terms of the young women and girls who are victims of violence, how many of them are victimized, not by their peers, but by an adult? What programming would be specific to some of those young girls?

[Lori MacDonald]

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll just give a bit of an overview in terms of the crime prevention program. We have about 67 programs operating across the country today. Of those, there are two specifically targeted toward young children, girls. There are about 27 targeted toward aboriginal, and there are another 21 or 22 that are actually on reserve. They address both men and women, boys and girls. There are different models in place to take on some of those challenges. There are different age groups as well.

I will give you an example of a gender-specific one in Halifax. There is a crime prevention program called SNAP, which focuses specifically on young girls, starting around the age of six and going up to about the age of twelve. It is gender-sensitive. It is focused specifically on the issues these young girls have, everything from aggression and low self-esteem to self-injury and substance abuse, even at that young age. The program model works on behaviours post-going into the program. It works on attitudes. At the same time, it also works with parenting. While the children are going into the program, the parents, typically single moms, are also going into the program during their sessions—at the same time but in separate areas—and they learn together in terms of how to manage behaviours, how to parent, and how to address some of those particular issues.

At the same time, at the other end of the country, we have a crime prevention program that would be gang-related. Again, that would focus on youth, both young boys and young girls. They would look at both risk factors and protective factors, how they got involved in violence and gangs, and then how to remove them from those situations.

Depending on the model that is used by a particular crime prevention program, and depending on what that focus is, it could touch specifically on women and girls, specifically on boys, or on both.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I am wondering about young girls, or young teens, who are just getting to the age where they are online. They are using smartphones and texting, but they are not yet at the level of maturity to be able to understand how to handle.... Young girls are now being exposed to a world that many of us, when we were young girls, would not have been exposed to.

I see a lot here about child sexual exploitation. You mentioned the six- to twelve-year-olds. What is there specifically for young teenagers, 13 or 14 years old?

[Lori MacDonald]

There are very good cyber-programs online that focus specifically on youth in terms of behaviour—Shirley used some examples—where they work with youth to identify what behaviours are cyber-bullying, identifying if your child is involved and how to take those signals and determine if there is something going on. There are also programs online that identify what is bullying and how to withdraw from that—how kids can remove themselves from that situation so they are not being victimized, being bullied, or identify that they are the ones being bullied.

Our cyber-program.... If you have the opportunity to go online to look at some of those, there are lists there that give you an opportunity to be exposed to some of those programs. They are open to anyone, of any age, young girls and young boys as well.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You talked about the delivery of social media campaigns. Can you explain a bit more about that?

[Lori MacDonald]

What we look at is anything from Twitter accounts to Snapchat—the kinds of things kids are using on social media—to identify when their behaviour is crossing a line, to make them aware that saying something, the kind of language they use, the kind of behaviour they use, for example, when young children are exclusionary, so I send a text to my friend Angela to talk about my friend Shirley and I exclude her from that.

They identify different ways that children are using social media, and target behaviour that is considered to be bullying, harassing, or, in the extreme, stalking.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right, we are over to Ms. Harder, for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Shirley, I just want to clarify something. Do you have front-line experience with regard to policing?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I do, but it is dated.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I would imagine that you stay reasonably close to the front lines in terms of your knowledge and your appreciation of what goes on there.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I talk to members every day who are on the front lines.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

We can talk so much about the theoretical level, if you will, or the higher level of coordination, the stats and all of that. Those things are really helpful for a report, but I'm wondering if you could provide us with some anecdotes. Could you provide us with the front-line experience, and the challenges that are faced in terms of policing and preventing violence against women?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

In terms of the challenges, I think it's probably more of a social issue, namely, how communities and individuals approach the issue of violence against women. The RCMP, Public Safety, and as my colleague has mentioned, numerous departments within the federal government, work very hard to raise awareness, to get people to report, to get people who are being victimized, bullied, or trafficked to report and not to be bystanders. That takes courage in some cases. I always use the example that by the time the police get called it's never a good story. Anything and everything we can do at the front end....

As an example, I was speaking to the commanding officer in Nunavut this morning, and we were talking about suicide intervention, which is very topical these days. “What are we doing and how can I work with Public Safety or Health Canada?” Those are the conversations that are happening, certainly here in Ottawa at the federal level, but also with our provinces and territories and our front-line people, to address the challenge that's going on right now in the streets of Iqaluit, for instance.

It's the same with La Loche. When the shootings in La Loche happened, there were so many services from the provincial government, the federal government, the RCMP, and teachers in the community. The community came together to deal with a very serious situation, a tragedy, indeed a crime. But when you look at the root cause of that crime, it's an issue that's much bigger than policing.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I have another question written here, but that's a very good point.

Just to pick up on that, when you say it's a much bigger issue than just policing, what does that look like? Break that down for us. Give us a bit of a picture.

[Angela Connidis]

Shirley mentioned the provinces and territories in the communities. I don't want to get technical, but you start dealing with a different jurisdiction, so you have your federal jurisdiction and then your provincial jurisdiction. What we find federally is, yes, we have the Canada Health Act and we have cross-country health issues, but the federal government doesn't manage health care in the provinces.

We know education is an issue, especially the sexualization of young women. A lot of that can be addressed through education. We don't run the school boards. We don't even manage the education system.

We have federal-provincial-territorial forums where deputies meet at those levels with their counterparts and ADMs. At our level we have working groups with our provincial and territorial colleagues, but our colleagues are also in the justice and public safety arena. We want our provincial justice and public safety colleagues to engage their education partners, their health partners, their citizenship and immigration partners to deal with that at a very local level, because the crime is at the back end. One of the reasons we have a crime prevention program is to stop them at the front end, early. That's why six to 12 is a real focus. Then we go to the youth.

The issues are generally about the family dynamics growing up. How do social services intervene in that? How do you help those youth? I feel like I'm straying from your question in a way. It's something the federal government works at with our other government departments internally, but we also reach out to the provinces and territories and communities to ask how we can work together and get those things done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent. That's your time. Now we're over to Mr. Fraser for five minutes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much for coming in and for your presentation today. I wanted to pick up on some of the questions my colleague Ms. Vandenbeld started with, in particular on how the youth crime prevention strategy is not gender specific.

You mentioned the program SNAP, I think it was, in Halifax. How are programs like that selected for funding that might be specific to young women and girls?

[Lori MacDonald]

Typically, from a purely process perspective, we do what we call a “call out” for a program. I'll use the exiting prostitution program as an example since we did that just recently. We went out and did a call out. We posted that we had an interest in groups coming forward to give us a proposal with respect to how we could possibly impact the community from a crime prevention perspective, in terms of exiting prostitution.

One of the things we do is to post models. Various models are available. Some of them are domestic. SNAP is one that was developed in Canada. We also get models from around the world. We post models that we actually want people to consider using in their submissions for proposals.

Different groups, typically people who are well engaged in these helping types of services or programs that help marginalized populations, are constantly looking for opportunities in their communities to submit program considerations.

Schools do look at that. They liaise with community groups, advocates, municipalities, and so on.

The actually submit a proposal that comes to us, and we have various rigorous processes that we go through in terms of evaluating that program against the criteria that we've established, that we want to look at. As an example, if we specifically wanted a program that focused on girls from the age of six to 11, that would be one of the criteria we would look at if we wanted to have pre- and post-evaluation of those kinds of things.

We would make an assessment on those proposals, and then we would ask them to submit a letter of intent. We would work with them throughout that process to actually get to the point of approving their submission to deliver a program.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

You mentioned, as sort of an abstract example, the potential to have a call out that reflects a need for programming for girls aged six to 11. Are there in fact programs like that for young women and girls?

[Lori MacDonald]

Yes. I'll give you a real-life example of one. SNAP is for girls aged six to 11 actually. It's a Canada-developed model. Another is called Spirit. It's for girls aged 11 to 15. It's actually in Calgary, in junior high schools. It's really to assist them.

They're young girls who have limited resources. They have many personal issues. Obviously, they've had many different conflicts already in their lives. To Shirley's point, you actually want to have interventions before the police are called. These programs in junior high are really focused on how to prevent them from coming into conflict with the law, and give them some stability, tools, and interventions to become more resilient, in order to avoid that path that we don't want them to go down.

It's actually in four junior high schools, in grades 7 to 9. The school identifies a population that it's worried about, some girls who they think, without quick intervention, will end up going down a different path. The schools help identify who should be in the program, and they work with the program in place. It's called Spirit, which stands for “girls identifying real life solutions” to their problems. It will run for three to five years. At the core it has education, recreation, mentorship, and female role models, which goes to the point that Shirley made earlier. Female role models, regardless of what the profession is, are critical to a number of these programs for young women and girls.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Very quickly, because I'm nearly out of time, is this program oversubscribed? Are you turning away good projects?

[Lori MacDonald]

A lot of project submissions come in. We have a lot of them.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

You mean a lot that you're not able to fund.

[Lori MacDonald]

We could say yes to a lot of them.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I think that's the end of my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

You're done.

Ms. Sansoucy, you have the floor and you have three minutes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

In 2015, the RCMP announced the launch of its Cybercrime Strategy plan. It allocated $30 million over five years and would create 40 new police or civilian positions.

Do you think this is enough money to address the huge number of cybercrime-related threats?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

Well—

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I'll ask a follow-up that may clarify things.

Take, for example, a medium-sized police detachment that must monitor cybercrime in its jurisdiction.

Whether we're talking about training or funding, what resources would it need to feel adequately equipped to combat this type of crime in its jurisdiction?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I can briefly talk about the prevention work we're doing, but I can't speak to investigations, since that's outside my purview. If you called another RCMP representative to appear, they could answer your question, but I work in prevention.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Okay.

What are the challenges of preventing cybercrime?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I think it's the lack of knowledge. The simple fact that our police officers are talking about it to teachers when they go to schools and that they're also talking to parents is helpful. I also mentioned a texting tool.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I'd like to continue the discussion we started earlier about the fact that a large majority of women and girls do not report when they are victims of assault. What's your action plan on that?

In terms of prevention, do you have ideas on how we could end this pattern?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

We have a presence in communities, either at schools or community centres. Most RCMP detachments are located in rural or northern areas. In many communities, the RCMP is the only federal presence. Having a presence in a school or community centre, or even being active with seniors, can help develop a relationship based on respect. Women and girls, and people in general, can develop trust with the police officers working in their communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you, Ms. Sansoucy. Your time has expired.

All right. We're returning now to our regularly scheduled seven-minute rounds and we're going to start with Ms. Dhillon.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Good afternoon. Thank you for being here.

I have several questions. For the online programs, do you go into schools? You mentioned, Ms. Connidis, that it's a little bit hard for you because you have to work with the ministers of education. What is the problem? Why is it not possible to implement these directly as part of the school curriculum? What is the roadblock?

[Angela Connidis]

The roadblock is the constitution, I would guess. Education curriculums are absolutely a provincial jurisdiction. Each province sets its own school curriculum. They may consult with us in terms of what needs to go on, but it really is not something we could ask them to do.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Why couldn't you even ask? Yes, it's a constitutional matter, and there is a separation with provincial jurisdictions, but this is a matter that touches the lives of thousands of people. Are they not even willing to engage in conversation?

[Angela Connidis]

I'm sure they'd be willing, and I shouldn't say we can't ask, because we can ask. It can go about that far. It's such a local responsibility that the provinces exercise on their own. To the extent that they ask for research on issues and want advice on it, we are pleased to give it to them. It's also one of those tricky things with our provincial and federal relations in terms of who we are connecting with. Right now you're talking about the education.

In terms of our provincial relationships, we have a working group on crime prevention. We have the provinces at the table, and we're trying to integrate our crime prevention initiatives. What are the provinces doing, what are we doing, and where are some of the issues? At that table, discussions would come up. Well, it's really important that this be part of the education curriculum. If it does come into the education curriculum, what do each of the provinces do? Our partners around the table will then go back to their provincial colleagues, because remember our partners are also public safety partners. They might gather the information, come back, and report to the table. They may share that information with their education partners in their provinces, and say, “Here, this is an issue, and there are some really good crime prevention tools.” SNAP actually works within the education system as well, so they would maybe introduce SNAP to them.

It is about sharing information, sharing best practices, encouraging provinces to take that back. But we don't actually have a one-on-one relationship with the ministries of education in the provinces.

Some of the provinces are actually doing some very interesting work that we are not quite collaborating on, but we're very interested in. Alberta, for instance, has a hub, and at their hubs they have all their provincial ministries around the same table. When a school will notice they have someone in their community who's away from school a lot, social services might say, “That person's family is on our list as a problem family,” or the police might say at that meeting, “Actually, that person's older brother is engaged with the law.” They identify a problem, they talk among themselves, and at that point they say, “Which is the best ministry, which is the best organization to intervene and help?” It could be, then, reporting to the schools that they need to do something.

Federally, we would work collaboratively, but we're not going to call up the people doing the curriculums and say, “You need to do that.” We work through our provincial colleagues who then will pass on the information and influence.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

But is it not important to start at a young age? As Mrs. Cuillierrier said before, by the time the victims or the complainants come to the police, it's such an ugly situation you can't do anything. Why not start at elementary school to teach that if somebody touches you there that's not okay? Or if somebody's doing this to you, it's cyber-bullying. Identify it. If you start when they're five, six, or seven, when they get older they're going to say, “Hey, that is not okay. What's happening is not okay.” Their minds can be moulded if they're watching violence as they're growing up. Daddy cannot hit Mommy. These are the types of things we should be teaching. It should be in the curriculum. If we don't start at that age, then when is it possible for them to learn? By then it's a vicious pattern, and we need to break that pattern.

You have online programs, and I'm very happy to see that, but how do you bring that into the schools? How do you tell the parents? Do you send pamphlets?

[Lori MacDonald]

Thank you for the question.

I have a couple of comments on your point.

We do have a lot of conversations about at what levels we influence and how we actually bring these in at the grassroots level and at a very young age. A number of schools are now introducing civility with respect to use of computers, as an example, because most schools have computers available and the kids are using technology. They are now building into their curriculum things like how to be appropriate with respect to technology as part of that. Many schools now have pathway types of programs that address issues of children who have aggressive behaviours or who are having difficulty integrating into the classroom. It's really important to recognize that many school systems across the country are now starting to introduce a number of those initiatives you're speaking about.

One of the things that we do on the crime prevention side is, when we're looking for programs and we're looking for people to submit programs, we want them to be working with the school. I'll just give you an example of one that we have now.

It's a program in Vancouver. It's called the SACY program, and it's really about violence against young women and girls. It's from the ages of 12 to 17. Now I know it's not the younger piece that you're talking about, but it's just an example of how people are just so much more aware that there's a need to intervene, not just in the community or with a social program but that it has to be connected to the education system. The reality is that we want our youth in the education system. They spend a lot of their time, hopefully, in that system, and there has to be a connection. There is the role-modelling piece, the sense of competence and self-worth, the issues of reduction in terms of negative behaviours of cyber-bullying, and so on.

It's just an example of a program that engages youth, and it also has recreational components to it. It also builds in a consequence piece so that kids of that age can really recognize the consequences of their actions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

Sorry, that's your time.

We're over to Ms. Vecchio for seven minutes.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much.

I just want to refer back to BullyText. That sounds like an excellent tool that you are using. Is that something that's going to be available? You mentioned that you go into the schools and you use it there. Is it something that's available to parents and communities as well, or is this something specific through policing?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

It's my understanding that we've made it available to youth, our police officers, and teachers, so absolutely, it would be available to parents so they could have an understanding of the use of the tool and the benefits of being a bystander or getting involved.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Absolutely. It sounds fantastic.

I'd like to turn the page.

You've spoken a lot about youth and how we can help educate and mould them, but that also leads us to our children who are going off to college or university. Just to touch on that, we've seen with the sexual education system in Ontario that a lot of times some of the families don't feel comfortable with that and therefore will pull their children out of class. We may have the same concerns if we're trying to talk about sexual touching, which I myself believe is really necessary to educate about, but not all families and parents are going to feel the same. We have to now worry about sending our children who have been uneducated on these issues off to college and university for the first time by themselves. It's a new world and they're quite vulnerable.

What are we doing in our colleges and universities to make sure what programs are available? How is Public Safety as well as the RCMP involved in making sure that the issues on campus are not going on, and what other programs are available there for that age group?

[Lori MacDonald]

We don't have a specific crime prevention program for on-campus kinds of behaviours, whether that's date raping or the rape culture. We don't have specific programs on campus for that. I will say that, as a mother of a young university-aged woman, one of the first things that we did when she went to university was ask where the safety program in the university was, what the policing was, what hours it is available, where the cameras are, and where you can go in terms of assistance. I won't name the university but I will say that they actually have very good awareness campaigns right at the very beginning of their freshman year in terms of that.

I think the challenge always is that on university and college campuses, there tends to be a sense of complacency from the students as well in terms of, “It's a university campus so everything should be okay. I'm safe here. I'm not downtown or in Timbuktu, so I don't have as much to worry about.” One of the challenges becomes not allowing them to fall into that complacent sense of safety and keeping that level of awareness with them wherever they go.

I'm not sure, Shirley, if you have a comment on it.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

Building on my colleagues' remarks, the RCMP doesn't have a crime prevention program specifically targeting colleges or universities, but we work closely with the RCMP detachments located within university towns. We work closely with the institution and campus police around developing or supporting their programs on personal safety. We look at physical measures around the university campuses for protecting young women and making them feel safe. In some cases, we've been asked to come and present, and we do that gladly and talk about personal safety. The number one rule is to not travel alone, as much as you can. They are really simple messages, but sometimes complacency sets in. It's important to have that refresher and drive the message home.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Earlier this week, we heard from Statistics Canada. They were talking about the universities. I think some of us were taken aback when we heard some of the stats. Some of the universities said they had no reported sexual misconduct on their campuses. I think with the mix of alcohol and youth, anything can happen. Let's not pull the wool over our eyes.

Sitting there and making an unofficial statement, do you believe this would be the situation? Are you saying this is something that hasn't been reported, that we need to work harder to make sure that students report sexual misconduct to the police?

[Lori MacDonald]

We can't be naive and we can't be complacent. We know that sexual assault and assault are under-reported. We know that when young women go off to school they don't always have a strong friend structure in place. There is a lot of anxiety about being away from home for the first time, and there are a number of substances available on and off the campus. All these things come together and should be signals to us that we should never accept a zero value. We should always be thinking. We have to have a level of awareness. We can't be complacent, even in terms of ourselves looking at the issue. We always have to be challenging our programs, our services, our level of security, our awareness, and what we're doing in terms of continuing that education piece. It shouldn't matter whether they're four or 24 in terms of wanting to have an environment where we can keep them safe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

Ms. Sansoucy, you have another seven minutes for questions.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. MacDonald, earlier, you spoke about your program on chatting. We know that there are new technologies that allow us to monitor how much people are using these applications to communicate with each other.

Can you share your data on the number of daily users as well as the frequency of use, and tell us how popular this mode of communication is?

[Lori MacDonald]

I'm sorry, but I don't have any statistics on this subject.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Is that because you don't have them with you or because they don't exist?

[Lori MacDonald]

I'm not sure. I'll have to contact my office to find out more.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

If you prefer, you can answer in English.

You're saying that you'll get this information for the committee. I think that information on the evaluation of your different programs and their use could be useful to us.

In your speech you mentioned the program that had been created in La Loche, Saskatchewan, after the events that took place there. This program is based on an existing program in Newfoundland and Labrador. I'd like to give you a chance to talk about that program a bit more.

[Lori MacDonald]

Thank you for the question.

We actually have a couple of programs. We had two programs running. One, a program called Venture, finished. It was very well received by La Loche.

The program focuses on two main components. One is very much an outdoor intervention in activities—hunting, fishing, recreational activities—in which the kids are involved with community leaders. It's also building resiliency factors, meaning how to stay away from drugs, how to not be involved in substances, and how to manage issues at home when you're living in a house of 15 people and there's conflict all the time and there's no place to get away for your own kind of space.

It ran for five years and it was extremely popular. It was very well received by the community, because the community owned that program. They invested themselves in it, they invested their own leadership in it, and there was significant positive impact. For example, more children were going to high school than before. There was less truancy, less violence in the home, and more uptake in terms of looking for role models in people, away from their homes, who they could spend time with.

I've forgotten the name of the second program, but I'll get that for you. We have a second program running right now—

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

The leadership and resiliency program.

[Lori MacDonald]

Yes. That's in its second year. The leadership and resiliency program is based on giving the kids leadership skills so that they actually don't become involved in their peer network such that, for instance, there's a lot of conflict at home, so I think I'll go outside behind the house and smoke a joint. Then I'll feel better, and I'll avoid that conflict. And you know what? I don't really want to go to school. I'll just smoke pot. I'll avoid the issues at home.

The program really is based on giving kids the tools and the skills to deal with those situations, to become more resilient and be able to say no to peer pressure, and to learn how to be able to deal with some of those issues.

At the same time, we're in the process right now of working with the community on I'll what call “Venture number two”. It's the same kind of program we just had there, but I would call it a “biggied up” version of that. We'll run that program again later this year. There's investment from the community in terms of their leadership around the program.

We're also working with them on a community safety program that my colleague Angela could speak about.

[Angela Connidis]

We have what we call a community safety planning initiative where we work with indigenous communities. One of the biggest challenges with an indigenous community is their capacity to do the work. There is a lot of teaching that has to happen before they can actually even apply for programs.

First we contact the mayor or the chief of a community. Would you be interested in us helping you build your capacity to understand what your risks are in your community, what your strengths are, and how you could build a plan to become a safer community?

The actual impetus behind this was to support missing and murdered indigenous women and make safer communities for women and girls. Women and girls benefit from a safe community. You can't just deal with them in isolation. We go into the community after the chief has, with their influence, gotten a group together. It's usually men and women, but often more women, from their community. They have to be committed to this. We then hire a facilitator. We go with the facilitator to teach them, first, here's what you need to do. What do you have in your community? What are your problems? Where do you think your biggest risks are? What are some of the things you as a community could do to help?

We go back a second time to look at that a little bit more with them and help build their capacity. The third time we go with them is to actually develop the community safety plan. It's a pathway for them to build up their community and identify some of the things they need to improve and where their gaps are.

At that stage, they are in a position to actually benefit from, and provincial and federal governments are in a better position to target, programs that help them. They can now realize where the problem is—i.e., we actually have a community centre here that we could change into a drug and addiction centre to help our youth. They might do that. Or we can work with our colleagues at health and say there's a big health issue and they need help here, so can you use that program? The community itself has a better capacity to identify these programs, do outreach, and see what's in their own community. This way we can engage provinces and territories to say, okay, we have this community safety plan, so what can you do to help?

We have 80 communities—

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

Now over to Ms. Vandenbeld for seven minutes.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

It sounds like you're doing some absolutely fantastic programming, especially at the local level. I'm very impressed.

The one thing I'm trying to do is see where the gaps might be. I noticed you said that out of 67 programs there are two that are focused on young children and girls. I think you said one of them was under the age of 12. The one that you mentioned for 11-year-olds to 15-year-olds in Calgary—which sounds like a fantastic program—is to prevent the girls from getting into conflict with the law. Understandably, most of these programs have to fall under crime prevention, but that makes the assumption that it is the youth who are doing this to other youth, and not necessarily that young people are becoming victimized by adults or people not known to them, because they're being exposed to this online.

I'm wondering if there is actually a gap in programming for that age group, for teenagers, for young girls and young women who are being victimized—not necessarily the cyber-bullying by their peers or by a boyfriend who takes pictures—but by adults.

[Angela Connidis]

I'll say quickly that there very well may be a gap. One of the challenges for us is that we do work with victims. We work with victims of crime, where the crime has already happened. However, the Department of Justice is actually responsible for victim programming and family violence initiatives, so that policy programming expertise lies with that department. We work with them closely on victims' issues, but we aren't resourced and given the mandate to fill that gap.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you. That's very helpful.

[Lori MacDonald]

Maybe I'll just add to that question in terms of the point about the young girls and whether it's necessarily to prevent them becoming involved in criminal activity. I think it's important to understand that it's a large catchment. It's an at-risk group that could become involved in crime, but that's not why they are necessarily included in that group.

If you look at the girls in the SNAP program in Halifax at six, it's because social services has come and said, “There's a problem here. They can't manage this child in day care and they can't manage her at school. There are lots of behaviour issues. We're not sure if something's going on with mom. We've had mom in, but she's really just turned 19 and has no parenting skills whatsoever.” There's that piece involved in the program as well.

Inasmuch as it's a crime prevention program, it's actually broader than that. It does take in some of those issues.

In terms of the gap issue, there are only two, so yes, I would say there is a gap.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

These are probably some of the girls who might be targeted by some of those predators, because maybe they don't have the parental guidance or—

[Lori MacDonald]

Absolutely.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay.

[Lori MacDonald]

They could be victimizing someone else, or they could be the victim as well. In a number of these programs, not only that one, but in even the high school programs as well they will say, “I have low self-esteem. I'm cutting. I'm doing something. I'm withdrawing”, and then they're going toward a negative peer group. It's that path. It's the issue we talked about earlier about all those root causes, those things that come up.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

I'm sharing my time with Mr. Fraser.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

I'm going to build on some of the campus-based questions you heard earlier from my colleague, Ms. Vecchio.

It wasn't only the under-reporting that I found very shocking, but also the percentage of drug-based and alcohol-based sexually violent incidents that took place. I think it was somewhere in the range of 60% where the victims were women aged 18 to 24.

It seems that between under-reporting and this drug-based and alcohol-based sexual violence, there is data to say there are problems that uniquely impact the campus crowd, so to speak. Is there any programming or are there any models done for that age group that would prevent violence against women in the 18 to 24 age group?

[Lori MacDonald]

There are crime prevention programs for that age group. Let me see if I can find an example here. They don't really focus on the way you framed it, in terms of being a victim of that, although there are victim programs that are run by other agencies and departments and so on, the Department of Justice being an example that could speak to that.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure.

[Lori MacDonald]

There are, though, crime prevention programs, whether that's a gang program or a youth program, that deal with issues that are aimed at violence against women. It would depend on the target group you're actually looking at. It could obviously impact people going to colleges and universities, but not, per se, the way you've described it, in terms of a program that targets assisting women on campus, as an example, that we would have out of the public safety department.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do the programs focus primarily on people who could become victims or are they also focused on, for example, young men and boys who could become perpetrators?

[Lori MacDonald]

Absolutely both, yes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Still on the campus theme, from the RCMP's perspective, you mentioned that you work closely with campus police or sometimes universities. Are there any sorts of best practices that exist when you do it? Or is it just that a local detachment's goodwill dictates what takes place?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

It's about local detachments having that relationship with the university and with campus police. I think that relationship can extend further. In terms of working in the community, police officers get to know the students.

I really bring it back to the relationship in terms of the trust and the respect among the university, the people attending the university, and the police in the community. That's a key.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do you think the development of best practices for that kind of RCMP-campus relationship would even be helpful?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

My position is that anything that prevents women from being victimized is helpful. Absolutely, yes.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Okay.

I think I have about 30 seconds. I'll be very quick. You mentioned a couple of risk factors. One was being a member of an indigenous community. I think you mentioned drug addiction as well. Are there any other overarching risk factors that have been identified that make someone more likely to be a victim of violence against young women and girls?

[Angela Connidis]

Being among the vulnerable people is one factor, but the general risk factors would be your family, your absenteeism from school, your level of poverty, and your social supports. Those are the kinds of risk factors you would see.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

We'll go Ms. Harder for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

My colleague and I just went onto BullyText in order to check it out. It looks like a pretty neat program. One of the things we noticed, though, is that it says it's no longer available as of April 30, 2016. Can you comment on why we're shutting that down if it has been successful?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

That's in my notes, and that's one piece that I need to follow up on. I'm stepping out of my realm of understanding, but there's a technological reason.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I can certainly provide it to you. I thought we would be able to use it for infinity, but it appears not. I don't know if it's a question of.... I don't know if we're paying for it.

All I know is that when it was demonstrated to me I found it very valuable, and then to hear from the communities that it's something good.... I think it's something that we need to explore further.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Shirley, again you might be the best one to respond to this, but I'll let the three of you decide. Can you talk a bit about the association between drug use and crime?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

There's a high correlation.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Is that true even for soft drugs like marijuana? Or is marijuana a safe drug and you don't necessarily see that correlation there?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

In terms of police investigations, we make observations. Is that kind of information necessarily collected as part of our investigation? No, but we can actually indicate whether the complainant, a suspect, or someone who has been victimized is impaired either by drugs or by alcohol. That's about it in terms of an investigation.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Would you be able to comment specifically with regard to violence committed against women and the association with drug use?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

I'm sorry. What was the question again?

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

My first question was a general one on drug use and crime. Now I'm being a little more specific and asking if you would be able to comment on the association between drug use and the victimization of or violence against women. I'm narrowing in on one specific crime.

[Angela Connidis]

I don't have specific statistics. I think we could probably.... We might be able to find statistics on that. I would not want to make anything up.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Do you know where we could go to find that information or would you be able to send it to us?

[Angela Connidis]

We can look into it and get back to the committee.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay, that would be great. Thank you.

Am I out of time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

No, you have about two minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

One of the things that's coming up again and again is the home environment or parents. It seems to be a really significant factor in all of this. Are any initiatives being taken to empower parents?

[Lori MacDonald]

Certainly from a crime prevention perspective when we look at the impacts of youth, at the kinds of crime prevention programs we're putting in place, it's not a singular issue. Risk factors and protective factors can include, as an example, kids who have hyperactivity issues or delinquency issues, family-related issues like a family member involved in crime, community factors. You would look at the relations to gangs, school factors such as whether they are truant and not going to school.

When we look at a crime prevention program, we look at all those things and then the parental piece becomes one part of it. It may not be like SNAP where we work with parents. It may be a program that talks about where they intervene with kids who are having difficulties at home and then give them tools to deal with those issues.

They're always interconnected in terms of the kinds of issues they're looking at and how they assist the kids in managing some of those issues because my risk factor could be more my peers than my parents. My parents are great, everything's good at home, but I have this group of friends who want me to join the gang. Conversely, I could have significant risk factors at home. For example, I could have one parent who has some substance abuse issues, and no parenting skills. It depends on the group they're dealing with, what the issues are, and then what factors they look at to try to positively influence the outcome of that program.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

Ms. Nassif, you have five minutes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I'll give my time to Mr. Samson.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Mr. Samson, you have five minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to my colleague.

I'm an educator by training, so the topics of education and young people are close to my heart.

In Nova Scotia, where I'm a bit more familiar with the situation, police officers liaise with all secondary and middle schools.

Does this program exist across the country, especially in aboriginal communities and in areas where the people are much more vulnerable?

[Lori MacDonald]

Many school districts have community policing available, not all. It depends on the size of the community. Bigger urban centres tend to have the liaison available right in the school system. In rural high schools there's a much bigger population. They have more conflict, more issues with respect to drugs coming into the school, or concern about weapons. So it does depend on the province and the municipality and the type of school they have and the issues they are facing.

Most district school boards have a very strong relationship with their safety counterparts in the community, whether that's the local police or working with social service agencies to support the children. It would be very uncommon to see a school system now that wasn't connected to all those social services to support the issues they're facing, including the police in some fashion.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

What's happening at that level is impressive.

I would just add the parent programs. There are many programs to help parents. My experience is that the parents we want to work with don't show up for those sessions in the evenings or on weekends. That's a big issue.

I'd like to take you back. You spoke of a curriculum and it's a provincial jurisdiction. As much as it is, I know that schools and school boards have enough flexibility in the curriculum, I believe, to integrate many of these programs you're talking about because they're very worthy and extremely important, with benefits to school boards, schools, families, and youth.

Is there any way you can try to reach out to school boards? You don't need to go directly to the province. As institutions of the federal government, we do so in many areas.

[Lori MacDonald]

I think it's a very good point you make, and I'll give a concrete example.

I just had the opportunity about six weeks ago to visit La Loche. I went with our provincial counterparts, including from education. Everyone sat at the table together to talk, in that there is an education issue, a safety issue, a health issue, a community resilience issue, and a policing issue. Regardless of whether they were federal, municipal, a local chief, or from the school system, all were invested in having a conversation about how to assist that community.

It's just one example, but you're right, many school systems now are looking for policing to come in to do programs with the kids about staying away from drugs. They're doing pathways programs, behaviour programs, at break time or recess time. They're doing cyber programs now through community policing.

It's evolving, of course. Certainly, it's probably not to the level that we would like it to be in terms of that curriculum, but I think there is opportunity there to advance exactly that conversation you're speaking about.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

We're going to go to Ms. Damoff for five minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm struck by how a lot of our questions are out of federal government jurisdiction in terms of provinces and education. I'm wondering if you see a role for the federal government to play in sharing best practices.

You talked about the hub in Alberta, which sounds like an outstanding model. Is there a role for us to be an information gatherer across the country and have that in one central place to be able to share with various school boards and provinces?

[Angela Connidis]

That's an excellent question, thank you. Yes, that is one of our major roles.

For crime prevention, for example, we have a working group. There's a five-year national action plan for crime prevention, and part of it is collecting the best practices across the country. We've now established a SharePoint portal. All jurisdictions identify their successful crime prevention practices and can post them on this portal so that they're available for everyone.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Do we do that specifically when it comes to young women and girls?

[Angela Connidis]

They can categorize their target audience. They can put it into those categories.

This is a bit of a pilot project to make sure it works, and then it will be opened up to all stakeholders, including educators.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

My other question had to do with cyber-bullying.

Does cyber-bullying fall under the umbrella of cybercrime? How does that tie together when we talk about cybercrime and cyber-bullying? Do they fall under the same umbrella?

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

Cyber-bullying is not a crime, but the components constitute a crime in cyberspace, whether it's harassment or intimidation.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay, but when kids in particular are subjected to cyber-bullying, it's 24 hours a day. It's a lot different than when you used to go to school and could get away from it. Now they're going to bed with their phones under their pillows and it's going off all night long. That can also lead to other things.

I heard a speaker a few years ago talk about it leading to trafficking because of that, and girls—this was in the GTA--who you would think would be well established in school, and have a strong family and support network, end up being drawn in because they're are so afraid of being exposed.

Is there anything that's been done on that type of trafficking?

We talked about immigrants and different classes, but we didn't really talk a lot about that, because they wouldn't be people you'd expect to be pulled into trafficking.

[Supt Shirley Cuillierrier]

The work the RCMP has done around human trafficking is really focused on police officers and raising the awareness and having the investigative understanding among police officers. Our position has always been that if it gets reported, we need to understand the crime and be able to act on it.

One of the things that we explored was working with NGOs in Canada that have a better understanding of how to reach vulnerable girls. As an example, we've worked with the Canadian Women's Foundation in the past. We also work with PREVNet. They do a lot of research so that we can have an understanding in terms of being able to message or raise awareness around the issue.

It's still an area that's evolving in terms of our learning, but it is an area of special concern. The online luring of young girls, and luring them into human trafficking, is so under-reported. Many of those young girls don't understand that they're being trafficked. They're in denial to a certain extent. We need to reverse that thinking and have them acknowledge that they are being controlled and trafficked by professionals.

Then there are the teachers, because the teachers are often faced with hearing or perhaps discovering some of these incidents in the schools. It's an area where we need to do more work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you.

Ms. Sansoucy, do you have more questions? You have three minutes.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Before we proceed, I have a question for you, Madam Chair.

A number of times today, we've asked for information from some witnesses and they replied that they'd send the information later. I'd like to report on these issues to the colleague I'm replacing on this committee.

Can you let me know how this information is obtained? How is this information passed on to the committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

The parliamentary analyst—

[The Clerk]

Madam Chair, I'm the one who communicates with parliamentary agents and the witnesses or their representative to pass along requests and get answers to questions, which are then sent to the committee members.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

The information will then be sent to the committee members. Thank you.

Ms. Connidis, a few committee members today mentioned gaps, and I'd like to come back to that topic.

The mandate letter of the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness states that your department must, and I quote, “Work with the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs to address gaps in services to Indigenous Peoples and those with mental illness throughout the criminal justice system.”

To conclude our meeting, I'd like you to talk about the main gaps your department has noted with respect to violence against girls and young women.

[Angela Connidis]

The Department of Justice and the Department of Indigenous and Northern Affairs are our partners. That is because you have gaps in the justice system. Reporting crimes is a gap. When they are engaged in the justice system, it's knowing how to move through the courts and what their rights are. Once you get into the corrections system, it's about the types of services that are available to reintegrate them, especially in terms of indigenous services. Do you have culturally appropriate services to help them reintegrate, to understand what their risks are, and to overcome them?

We know there's a lot that happens before someone becomes engaged in the justice system, and that's where our Indigenous and Northern Affairs partners come into play. They run a lot of the programs that improve the communities, so that's the education in the community, the health, the housing infrastructure, which are very important to preventing crime. As I mentioned earlier, there is also the community safety planning, which involves working very closely with the communities to help them.

We hadn't talked about the first nations policing program, but that's another program we have at Public Safety. We have agreements with the provinces, territories, and the communities to fund first nations policing on the reserves.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's excellent.

That's the end of our time. I want to say thank you very much to our witnesses. You did an excellent job. You're very knowledgeable. We appreciate the work that you're doing to try to eradicate violence against women. We encourage you to continue. If there is information that's been requested, would you follow up with the clerk? If there is other information that you think would be of benefit to the committee, we would love to receive it.

Thank you, again.

This meeting is adjourned.