Evidence of meeting #109 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was female.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
Wonderful.
Your former leader, Preston Manning, was criticized terribly for his glasses, his teeth, and his hair.
Your first legislative assistant, our former prime minister—and thank you for your mentorship to him—Stephen Harper, was criticized terribly for his hair and for his sweater vests. Is this type of criticism specific to women, or is this something we see across all people?
As an Individual
We have seen it, poor Preston and his voice and his haircut, and Stephen with the blue vest. I guess you've proved that it's really not just women who get attacked and made fun of. We have to lift the level a little on men or women to be able to say, “Is that valid?”
When people used to ask me what I thought of Preston Manning's haircut, I just said, I don't know how many times, “I don't care what his hair looks like on the outside of his head. I care what's on the inside of his head,” and the same with Stephen Harper.
I guess that proves the point that nobody is free from criticism and vitriol, and we need to get rid of that across the board from sea to sea, provincially, federally, and municipally, because I know ugly things go on there, too, to men and women.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
You succeeded at a time that....
I think that's my five minutes.
Conservative
Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB
I do have another question that I can ask, but all right.
Thank you, Deb.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank all the witnesses for their presentations. They are very helpful to us in our study.
I just want to go back a bit to the study here. We're talking about barriers to women in politics. We're talking about recruitment challenges. This issue of women in politics transcends all political parties. Some of the comments here are about a specific party, or not, or a member. I just want to get some specifics, because we really believe that we're not necessarily talking about merit, the merit of women in politics. The women MPs who are in the House are fabulous. The cabinet ministers are very competent, but we still have 26%, or 27% now since the few by-elections have taken place. We are still 60th in the world.
I don't understand the line of merit. Women MPs are very qualified, past and present. I want to bring it back to the study itself.
Ms. Grey, your experience is extensive. I remember, as a high school student, very attentively watching you on your bike and being the first Reform Party member.
I want to focus on the nomination. Are you suggesting that there is really nothing that a parliamentary committee here could recommend to the government to make changes in legislation, legislation that is in place for nominations at Elections Canada, or the party should not change because it is a fair playing field? Are there any recommendations that you might have tried in the past and weren't able to do that we should be looking at right now?
As an Individual
That's a good point. I'm not sure how governments can legislate nomination meetings. That would be a tough one. I'm sure you have some ideas on that, but they'd have to get the nomination first.
When I was here and sat with your uncle Benoît, I came in at a time when I didn't have to fight for a nomination. The Reform Party was brand new and they were looking for any conscious, warm body able to string a few sentences together. I'm serious. I was acclaimed as a candidate, and then I was blessed by being re-elected several times after that.
It's important that people who are testing the waters for nominations.... Women have networks as well, maybe not as wide as the men's—certainly in my day, theirs were not as wide as the men's—and they need to get over the fear of running and the fear of losing. They need to be able to develop those networks. Sitting MPs should mentor people, and tell them, “I believe in you. Let's have coffee, and let's talk about whether you're really going to go through with this.”
The nomination meeting is the key to everything, regardless of party. If we know a university student who wants to go to campaign school, let's rustle up some money and send them off to campaign school. Maybe they don't have money for it or they don't know enough people to do it, so you say, “I'll throw a coffee party for you.” This is a practical way to help them get to know some other people who could build a team for them for the nomination.
Liberal
Marc Serré Liberal Nickel Belt, ON
A comment was made earlier about the belief that a woman at a boardroom table got there because she is a woman. But there's also men at the boardroom table who got there because they had a golf membership or were part of a men's club. There's a variety of factors at play, so I just don't understand that argument.
I would like to return to Ms. Mailloux,
As to nominations, what specifically can we do? We have heard—and Ms. Grey said this also—that it is not necessarily the government, but rather the political parties that have an important role to play.
What can all the political parties do to truly increase the number of women in politics?
Chair, Board of directors , Groupe Femmes, Politique et Démocratie
The political parties have to take stock of all their recruitment and selection practices to see how they could recruit more women. They have to set a target and it has to be planned. Of course there have to be more women on selection committees, otherwise...
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Pam Damoff
Thank you. Sorry to cut you off. We do have limited time.
We're going to suspend for about two minutes while we change the panel. Then we'll proceed with the second panel.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Pam Damoff
Welcome back to the 109th meeting of our committee.
I'm pleased to welcome Karen Sorensen, the mayor of Banff, and Jenelle Saskiw, the former mayor of Marwayne, Alberta.
I'm going to turn the floor over to you, Mayor Sorensen, for your opening statement. You have seven minutes.
Karen Sorensen Mayor of Banff, As an Individual
Thanks so much. Certainly thank you for the opportunity to be here today.
I have a quick biography. I was first elected as a Canadian Rockies school board trustee in a by-election in 1996 and was re-elected in 1998. In 2004, I successfully ran for town councillor in the Town of Banff and was re-elected in 2007. In 2010, I was acclaimed—which is really the way to go—as mayor of Banff and was re-elected in 2013 and 2017.
I can certainly assure you that being the mayor of Banff is a privilege and a unique opportunity in our country as the municipality of Banff sits in Banff National Park, the world's finest national park. It's a very special place in the world, and I get to call Banff home.
I also have the very influential titles of wife, mom, step-mom, daughter, sister, and aunt. That in itself may demonstrate a bit of a difference in genders where I, as a female, feel compelled to tell you about my whole self and to tell you that when I reflect on my accomplishments in this life, the greatest accomplishment has been raising two fine young men who respect women and who view those who are politically driven as most interesting.
On the topic of barriers facing women in politics, I certainly acknowledge that there is clearly a problem of gender balance in Canadian politics—federally, provincially, and municipally. Obviously we've been talking about statistics and those statistics tell the story. Just as another statistic, female mayors account for 18% of mayors in Canada.
This all stated, frankly, facing barriers as a woman in politics has not been my personal experience. I have not consciously experienced barriers against me based on my gender. I also live in a community where three of seven councillors are female, three of five trustees, as well as with an acting female superintendent of Banff National Park, a female CEO of Banff & Lake Louise Tourism, and a female president of the Banff centre. I live in a gender-balanced community. I am rarely the only woman at the table.
I can only speak from my personal experience and state my personal opinions. I have focused on three barriers today: the media, being a mom, and confidence. My first observation is that the media still treats women in politics differently than they do men. Social media, of course, has taken this to a whole new level. I believe a real barrier for some women to run for office is gender-based abuse. Male politicians certainly take a lot of criticism, too, and as just noted, even based on their appearance, but my personal experience is that it's not generally connected to gender in terms of abuse.
Any woman who has political aspirations that spends 10 minutes on Twitter following their female mentors may be simply afraid to run. Women see how women are being treated and they get the message. Their response is, “Thanks, I'll take a pass.”
These are some sample tweets from Alberta when a female MLA crossed the floor from the Conservative Party to the NDP. “Now you have two blonde bimbos in that party that are clueless.” “Sandra should stay in the kitchen where she belongs.” “Dumb broad. A good place for her to be is with the rest of the queers.”
Traditional media, I believe, is also still at fault. They spend time focusing on a female politician's domestic life, discussing her looks or her voice or her attire. The media really needs to ask themselves this. If they were reporting on a man, would they say the same thing or ask the same questions? They need, we all need, to stop asking if a woman can be both a politician and a mom, which is my next point.
Women have babies. Women are moms. Women are maternal and we're very good at it. Sadly, I believe there continues to be a suggestion that mothers who pursue political careers are not thinking of the best interests of their children, or having a mom in politics is somehow more damaging than having a dad in politics. In politics, probably in any high-demand career, women who make a point of making time for their children are still labelled as a weak link and not focused on the job at hand, yet the same effort is praised in men who are labelled as great dads for taking time for the kids.
Finally, I want to speak to confidence. Based on the feedback I've received, women who consider running and then don't speaks to a lack of confidence. They may not define it that way. Here's what I hear: “I don't know enough”, “I'm not thick-skinned enough”, “I won't get elected because my network isn't broad enough”, or “I can't raise the money I will need to campaign effectively”.
Whatever the rationale, it comes down to, from my perspective, confidence. I don't lack confidence. I never have. It causes me to pause and ask, why is that? If confidence is a barrier, and I believe it is, why are some more confident than others? Is it genetic? Is it childhood environment? Is it life experiences? Whatever it is, I'm pretty certain that talking about the lack of confidence isn't going to change it. Mentoring people to increase their level of confidence may.
What is to be done? On social media abuse and in traditional media gender reporting, don't ignore this. We can't excuse it. We can't normalize this. We must oppose it, and men must be on the front lines too. On moms in politics, make it acceptable to be on maternity leave as required, to nurse an infant in chambers or caucus or in the House. Don't lash out when a politician who is a parent has a child attend an event with them or get on a plane with them, or when the Prime Minister and his or her spouse require additional child care based on their professional schedules. Stop it. Children should be every parent's first priority.
On building confidence in future politicians, certainly I understand that campaign schools are becoming quite commonplace and I think that is great for actually both men and women. If they are female-specific, then maybe some of these conversations can be had, or at least practical education sessions on how to fundraise, how to door-knock effectively, how to stretch your network and how not to get too thick of a skin. Sometimes it hurts. Sometimes it just doesn't roll off you, and that's okay as it's part of the experience.
Confidence is a belief in yourself. You can't fake it. Really building confidence starts way before you are thinking about running for a political position. These lessons need to be engrossed in the education system and in society. Things like anti-bullying campaigns and creating places that accept all skin colours, sexual preferences, and body types are working. Maybe our next generation of women will simply be more confident.
The legitimacy of Canadian democracy depends on integrating more women into the political process. Barriers can only be removed when social attitudes about gender change. Whatever recommendations come out of this study, please know that removing barriers at one level goes a long way in making changes elsewhere.
I'll close with a comment on a debate that seems to be infiltrating parties and politics, the comment that women should be lifted to ministries and higher profile responsibilities based on merit, not just on a quota. Let me assure you, this is not an either-or. Do both. There are plenty of women with enough credibility to fill any quota. We're right here.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Pam Damoff
Thank you very much.
We'll turn it over to you, Ms. Saskiw, for seven minutes.
Jenelle Saskiw As an Individual
Thank you.
My name is Jenelle Saskiw and I've been actively involved in politics and municipal government for over 20 years. Politics has always been in my blood. A fond memory for me was when I was 16 years old, attending the Forum for Young Albertans, sitting in the legislature, and pondering whether I had the ability to run for office and influence change.
The desire was always within me. I was encouraged to run for municipal office in 2004, and at the age of 29, I successfully ran and was elected in my hometown of Marwayne, Alberta. I held my position for 14 years, five as a councillor and nine as the mayor. I must admit, political barriers were all around me, but I never let them define me. I had a commitment to my constituents, who had placed their trust in me, and I had a desire to make a difference in my community. It took time, and as the years passed, my confidence grew, my knowledge base expanded, and I enjoyed new challenges and opportunities.
I continued my political path and held positions with the Alberta Urban Municipalities Association for seven years, and with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities for four. I chaired many committees at the local, provincial, and national levels, including the national municipal rail safety working group, where I was able to work with many members of Parliament to develop, and eventually pass, Bill C-52, the Safe and Accountable Rail Act.
I found myself becoming even more engaged and partaking in many events, such as campaign schools for women, attending Equal Voice's events, and helping local women, minorities, and youth run their campaigns. I love municipal politics but must admit that the life was difficult. Balancing municipal commitments and my family life—I have four children—became more and more stressful. In August of 2016, at the request of my family, I stepped away from politics to bring balance back to my family life. My children were growing and I knew I could never regain these precious years with them.
I think women do face the challenge of succeeding within a male-dominated political party. We consider the impact politics will have on our families, their welfare, and our future careers. We fear overzealous media attention, and we tend to lack confidence in our ability to serve effectively. We tend to have the perception that the political arena is biased against us. I feel that women need more convincing than men do to even consider running in an election, even when the seat is clearly winnable. Women who are, in fact, solid candidate material still need to be persuaded. They feel they need to prove that the skills they draw upon from the workforce, home, and the community will indeed be transferable into political life. We are often reluctant to say yes to the opportunity, and for some reason, we feel like we lack the experience to serve.
I think there are areas of concern within the electoral process as well. It is time-consuming, complex, and there is a lack of information on how to run a successful campaign, including exactly what is involved in getting nominated. Studies conclude that men do raise substantially more money than women do as candidates and individual donors, and that men donate more money to male candidates. This, too, furthers the hesitation for us to even run, as we ponder whether we can afford to run a healthy political campaign.
Incumbents, particularly those in leadership positions, tend to be men. Incumbents receive most financial resources, political support, and visibility during the campaign. For example, in Canada, 84% of mayors were incumbent. As a result, most women, many of us campaigning for the first time, are unable to mount effective campaigns or develop our public profiles to win name recognition against the incumbent.
Party leaders also unanimously agree that parties struggle to keep women members engaged between election cycles. Lack of training and opportunities to exercise leadership often discourage us from maintaining political involvement. Furthermore, parties lack a strategy for retaining women candidates who do not win the nominations or elections, and then fail to prepare them for the next election cycle.
We have a perception that political ambition is an invitation for political scrutiny into our private lives, which could have an indirect impact on our families. The expectations of motherhood are still major deterrents for women to participate in politics. Many of us do, and we have to choose between caring for our family and our children or achieving our broader political goals.
From experience, I know it's a very difficult position to be in. The day I stepped away from politics was the day that part of my spirit died. I knew I had to leave. My children needed mom, and working away from home was taking a toll on my family's well-being. Could I return to politics? I could, but I could never return to participate in my children's youth.
I'm curious to know how many men have left politics for the sake of their family's well-being.
Social media is also becoming a more definite barrier for women in politics and is probably one of the most visible deterrents today. A 2016 survey of female politicians from 39 countries found that 44% had received threats of death, rape, beatings, or abduction, and 85% had said they were often subjected to humiliating sexist remarks from male colleagues. I must admit that this is one of the most concerning barriers for me as a female politician. I have been subjected to this harassment. It's raw, it's real, and at times it's terrifying. No matter how thick-skinned you think you are, it still hurts, and I do not want my children to fear for my well-being because of a comment that someone, who may not even know me, has made from behind a keyboard.
How can we improve representation of women in politics? We need to work together to build strong support systems, including role models, strong networks, and robust teams. We need society to encourage and promote women in politics. We need interaction with more current and past female politicians, because we are their role models. We need more campaign schools, legal advice, and possible networking opportunities. We need to work together to combat the negative aspects of social media and online bullying by creating an accountability mechanism to limit the harm caused by online aggressors. We need women to know that we are not alone in the race.
What will I do? My goal is to be a mentor, to allow women, friends, and my daughters to believe in themselves and to see how we can collectively ensure that barriers are removed and that more women can become more active members within our political and leadership roles.
It's easy to research and present, but it's up to our generation to step up and offer support and courage. Imagine if we all collectively put our energy and efforts into changing the future. My hope is that our next generation will be here discussing how barriers for women were eliminated, and to reflect on how together, our generation influenced that change in politics.
In spite of barriers, I have learned to deal with them, and my goal is to share my experience so that together we can continue to raise our fellow women to their highest political potential.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Pam Damoff
Thank you very much to both of you.
We're now going to turn to our first round of questions.
Emmanuella, you have seven minutes.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you both so much for that wonderful testimony.
Ms. Sorensen, you mentioned that hopefully the next generation of women will be more confident. Other than getting women elected and having more equal representation hopefully as the years go on, I am a former teacher, and I know what I was able to do in the classroom with my 14- and 15-year-olds. I know what type of influence I had on my students and how much I was able to be a role model for them, and how much I was able to use the material that I was teaching them to have some type of impact.
What do you think about education, and how do you think this can help give our girls of the future more confidence?
Mayor of Banff, As an Individual
I believe education is trying to do, and probably in some instance is doing, a much better job and a very good job. If it's not within the actual walls of the school, there are all kinds of organizations now. It's not kind of Girl Guides and Boy Scouts anymore. There are absolute groups that focus on young girls and engaging them more in sport and in activities other than what has been traditional.
I actually do think the education system is moving forward, and socially we now can all do our part. If I'm asked to attend something in Banff with young girls, I make sure I'm there. You need to put yourself out as a role model. I feel pretty hopeful. I feel pretty hopeful with what Jenelle said, that maybe in another generation from now we will be talking about “remember when?” I really encourage us in the education system and it has to start before ages 14 and 15. I've had 14- and 15-year-old girls around my house, and we really need to start sooner than that.
My sons are 26 and 23, and it still shocks me when sometimes we have some young ladies in the house and how attached they are to their looks and social media and that's what makes them popular. For me, that part is still really disturbing. I would like to think maybe it's our five-, six-, and seven-year-olds and those new baby girls who are being born who won't have to be subjected to that.
Liberal
As an Individual
I do. It's important for us not only to educate our young girls, but to educate everyone.
I'm very proud of the fact that during my 14 years, and part of it was because I do have a young family and I wanted them to be very involved in what I did, I actually went and volunteered my time in the grade 3, 6, 9, and 12 classrooms and talked to them about politics and let them ask the questions. It's not only about empowering the girls in the classroom. It's about educating the boys and having that message spread across so that we know how everybody can encourage each other to raise each other up.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you very much.
You also mentioned that you left your political career for your family, which is very understandable. You said that you don't know how many men would have left their political careers for their families. I agree with you to some extent, although I know that some men have left their careers for their families.
On gender roles, traditional gender roles in both the house and in public life, how do you think a better balance could help the situation? What do you think we can do to find a better balance?
As an Individual
It's difficult. We're natural moms. I know that I could have stayed in that position but it was an instance when I was leaving for Montreal, for a conference, when my little girl stood at the doorway, crying, and said, “Mom, I don't want you to go.”
There was another instance when I was working on rail safety and I was here in Ottawa for a week, and when I came home, my 14-year-old son was taller than me. How does that happen in a week? You can't get those times back. I think that having the proper support systems is critical. I have that. My husband is amazing, and I couldn't have done what I did without his support. But I also think there are times that he doesn't totally understand exactly what's involved in my leaving. Even coming here to Ottawa for these few days, I was frantically racing around the house trying to make casseroles, get everything organized, and sign school forms.
I think it's important just to be communicating. I think that's the most important key, because unless we communicate and educate, we have nothing. We have to share these stories and we have to support each other when we hear these stories, because they are real.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Because you had a supportive husband, you were able to do this for a very long time.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
That is great, and it goes to show what educating boys about this and getting them on board could do, and how far it could bring the women as well.