Status of Women Committee on June 14th, 2018

[Karen Sorensen]

I've never been to a campaign school and I've just learned about them in the last little while. Whether it should be the federal government, provincial governments, or municipalities, obviously any education is good education if it helps encourage women to run and maybe builds their confidence a little and explains how. There is a fast way to door-knock, but some people just don't learn that until they know it.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Pam Damoff]

Sorry. That's your time.

We're going to go to Marc for seven minutes, please.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I was also a municipal councillor and school trustee. Thank you for your work and commitment.

We have heard that 30% of municipal councillors are women. That is higher than at the provincial and federal levels. Based on your experience, can you tell us what leads more women to go into municipal politics rather than provincial or federal politics?

[Karen Sorensen]

There are a couple of things. For me, and with respect to all women who make this choice, I personally chose to be in the community in which I live. One of the big draws to school boards and municipal politics is that you get to be at home. I don't fly to Ottawa every Sunday, or even up to Edmonton. For me, that was a very big part of it.

Honestly, for me, it's the partisan piece. I'm happy not to have a party. I'm happy to make decisions and be elected and stand on points that reflect my values. I totally embrace diversity even at our small council table in the Town of Banff, but I can always feel confident that I can speak my mind, make decisions, and vote in a way that is based on my values. To me, that is precious.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you have anything to add?

[Jenelle Saskiw]

I have to agree with Karen. As she said, it's the non-partisan aspect.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

On the non-partisan aspect, obviously in Parliament here we have Bill C-65, which all parties have been working on together, on the harassment on the Hill and working towards improving this.

You mentioned in your opening remarks about social media and how that is possibly a factor in preventing women from entering, especially federal, or all levels of politics. Can you elaborate on that?

[Jenelle Saskiw]

I think we can look at it two ways. It's how we choose to empower social media. Right now there is a very negative connotation with social media, with negative remarks, comments, the visible bullying that goes on right now.

What can we do? How do we educate our public so that we can start using social media as a positive tool?

It's a great resource. What a fantastic way to be able to create an online network. For some reason we're hesitant to utilize it and develop it in that form. What can we do together to turn that negative into a positive? As I've said, we have an amazing tool but we aren't utilizing it right now.

[Karen Sorensen]

I would just say that social media isn't going away—it's just not. I think that my personal way to deal with this is that I frankly very rarely will tweet about something controversial. I tweet about good things and positive things and what's happening. Maybe that's a coward's way out, but that's how I manage my social media. We have lots of good things happening in Banff. I find that I'm generally able to tweet very positively.

Who was it that said they took the picture of the feedback and reposted it? Yes, that's a good idea. It's hard. I refuse to debate anything on social media. Sometimes if able, I will send a private message saying here's my mayor's email address and please email me your comments. I'll deal with it professionally through my office, not on social media.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I wanted to go back to your comment about rural areas and some of the barriers.

I don't have official statistics in Parliament here, but it appears that a lot of the women candidates lost in rural ridings at the federal level.

Do you have any insight on some of the challenges you have in rural areas specifically related to us here so we can see the barriers?

[Jenelle Saskiw]

I actually think that the networking opportunities in rural Canada are very different for men versus women. By choice, my husband golfs. He curls. He's the one who takes the boys to hockey practice. He has that social networking. I'm at home. I think we need to somehow increase these networking opportunities that allow women to be able to engage not only with each other but with men as well so that people realize the potential that every candidate has.

My work as mayor for 14 years.... As I said, I was doing some really incredible things even here on the national level with rail safety. I still have people who say, “Really? You did rail safety work? We didn't know that.” As I said, we just have to be able to create these events and these opportunities where we can do the outreach together.

[Karen Sorensen]

I think that's a great question.

There are a couple of things with the percentage of incumbents who are female. It's sort of like once you prove yourselves, then we'll re-elect you. If that comes into play or not.... The other interesting thing is that I think there is an awful lot of focus on getting women to run. I think there has to be a shift in that to helping women to get elected.

I just joined a board in Calgary. It's called Ask Her. It's basically Calgary municipal politics. They formed for the last municipal election. They had 21 women run. Three were elected and two were incumbents. At my first meeting I said that I think we should change the name to “Elect Her”. It's one thing to ask, but I agree with you, I think the problem is sometimes getting people elected.

There's a plethora of reasons why. I think that's another element to look at. It's not just about trying to get women to run. It's about getting them elected. Getting women in ministries or high-profile committees, etc., I think starts to tell the public that this is an acceptable thing to happen.

[Jenelle Saskiw]

I did touch on that when we talked about the lack of interaction when somebody isn't successful for the nomination and what we do at the next election cycle. We do have that three- or four-year gap where we aren't utilizing our time wisely.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Maybe government could help fund the Ask Her groups to help sustain that.

[A voice]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Pam Damoff]

That's your time.

Thank you very much.

We're now going to Rachel for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Karen and Jenelle, thank you so much for taking the time to come and be with us.

[Karen Sorensen]

I'm happy to be in Ottawa. I have a few meetings.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Good. I'm glad. Hopefully, while you're here, you can even get a bit of time to enjoy Ottawa and all it has to offer.

We certainly appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with us. This has been really rich so far, and we look forward to gleaning from your testimony as we put together the report.

My first question is for Jenelle.

Jenelle, in your opening remarks you said that “barriers were all around me, but I never let them define me.” It's a great statement. Can you explain that a little more?

[Jenelle Saskiw]

To give you some insight, I was brand new to our community. We had lived in Marwayne for only eight months, I was 29 years old, and I was pregnant. That really was not the norm in rural Marwayne, Alberta, so when I ran, my intention was actually just to meet people in the community. I never intended to be elected.

There were barriers. I remember one of the first meetings I attended. A male councillor from another community actually told me, “You just sit down. I think what you meant to say was...”, and he corrected my statement. It was very polite of him, but I soon corrected him, to the best of my knowledge. There were barriers, and these were the types of barriers. As I said, I was 29 years old and new to the community. People said things like, “What do you know? You've never lived here. You didn't grow up here. You don't understand what's involved here,” but as I said, I never let them define me.

I was able to show people that I had a very unique point of view, and perhaps a refreshing point of view, because I didn't know the baggage and I didn't know the old family history names. None of that meant anything to me. All I knew was what I could see and the facts I could deal with. That's really what made me a strong, positive leader.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Awesome.

I'll get both of you to comment on this individually, because it came up a bit at the beginning of both of your testimonies. What could be done to influence the perceptions and the behaviours of young men and boys? Both of you mentioned this as being important. I'm wondering if you can expand on it more.

[Karen Sorensen]

I will just start by saying that to me—and I think Jenelle referred to this as well—it's not unlike what we do to influence young girls. You just need role models. As I said, I often had many young boys sitting around the kitchen counter debating pedestrian bridges, the cost of transit, and any number of other things, so it's role modelling for these young men, too.

I couldn't be prouder of my two sons. I really think we have raised and are raising a generation in lots of areas where this kind of conversation will happen less often. Role modelling and demonstrating.... Whether it's on TV, whether it's in their own home, or whether it's in their city or in a small community, showing gender balance will tell the story.

I'm going to just ask this. For the people who have young children, and even if you're in the background there, here is your tool. Sorry, it's off topic. Every night you're away, you make a paper chain, with the number of nights you're going to be away. Each night has a chain link. You write a note on it. Every night, they open up one of the pieces of paper. It shows them that the time you're going to be away is reducing. Then when it gets to one link, that means mommy or daddy is coming home the next day.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Don't make me cry, Karen.

[Karen Sorensen]

When you were talking, I thought, “I have to tell her about the paper chain trick.”

[Jenelle Saskiw]

It's very positive that we are in a different generation right now. I look at the conversations I have with my children. I have a gender-balanced family: two boys, two girls. We don't talk about differences in female or male, skin colour, ethnicity, or sexuality. We talk about everybody as people, as one.

I'm with you, Karen. I really think we are the leaders in this conversation, and that my children will not sit there and say, “She's a woman, so she doesn't deserve to be in that position,” or “He's a man, so he's going to get the role.” No. In fact, I had an instance where two of us were applying for a position on a board—