Status of Women Committee on May 5th, 2016

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

This question is specifically to INAC—but if either of you wants to answer—about the plus. When we talk about GBA, we talk about GBA+. There are different segments within populations of women, particularly aboriginal women, who would be particularly affected.

Is that also part of the regular work you're doing on GBA?

[Nicole Kennedy]

It very much is part. For our department, the shift from GBA to GBA+ was not monumental, because we are always focusing on a very vulnerable population. We know it's a very segmented population. There are communities that are doing very, very well and those that are not.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay.

Ms. Mitchell.

[Gail Mitchell]

Certainly from ESDC's perspective, we focus a lot on vulnerable populations. Many of our program interventions are specifically targeted to vulnerable populations—new Canadians, women, etc.—so GBA+ has just been part of how we frame.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

In terms of training, one thing that was highlighted significantly was that it's not just training, as in taking the course; it's having somebody on site who can answer questions and give that kind of advice. I know that the public service school has certain courses. What kind of training do you have in your departments?

[Gail Mitchell]

As I mentioned, we have a centre of expertise and we have a person who is a resource to people within the department. Through our network we engage in awareness and dialogue. There are some standardized tools that are very useful and I think very powerful.

And then...we're doing it. People are engaged in this analysis on a daily basis with the program areas that we work on. It's kind of happening all over the place.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Okay. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

We'll turn to my Conservative colleagues, starting with Ms. Harder for five minutes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Mitchell, in one of your comments you referenced “gender issues”. I'm wondering if you can just help me understand how you determine what is and is not a gender issue.

[Gail Mitchell]

In the context of a particular policy or program, let's take the example of old age security. That's a universally applied program essentially to alleviate poverty in senior populations. When we're looking at how effective that program is, we pull apart the data to understand how it touches different populations within that—singles, seniors, men, married couples, couples living apart with one in an old age home, etc.

So we pull things apart at that level. I'm not sure....

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I guess I'm just wondering, then, if when you pull it apart you see that it doesn't come out in equal components, is it then an issue? If you have one that comes out at 40%, another at 20%, another at 20%, and another at 20%, is the one at 40% the issue or the three at 20%?

[Gail Mitchell]

If our objective is alleviating poverty—let's stick with that for a moment—and the other objective is that the programs apply in a universal way, and they apply equally to Canadians who fit the eligibility requirements, if you have that kind of a spread, and it's linked to gender such that men are doing 40% better than senior women, you have to get underneath that to understand why that is. So yes, it would signal an issue.

At the end of the day, the interventions that you use to address it may be quite varied. It may not result in “These people are getting too much, so we'll reduce it”; you'll use a whole bunch of different interventions to deal with it. But the goal remains, at the front end, that you have a universal program that applies in an equitable way to all those who are eligible. If in the results you see disparities, you have to inquire as to why that is.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I guess with that comes another question. Let's just take as an example science and the trades, because we know that these are areas where we see inequality between men and women. I guess I'm just wondering, in your department, then, would the objective be to see an equal number of men and an equal number of women in these trades, or would the objective be to see an increase in the number of women in these trades.

[Gail Mitchell]

Well, where is it we want to be as a society in terms of women participating in certain trades? We will all have views on that.

I think from a more modest perspective, we would pursue increasing the number of women who participate in these trades. Let's use high-skilled trades as an example. Again, we have a long way to go to get to parity, so a more modest first step is to ask what do we need to do to increase women's participation in these programs? What are the upstream interventions that might be necessary to position it so that women are more likely to apply, be interested, have the necessary pre-training to even get in the door?

A whole bunch of steps would be part of it. It becomes kind of a political discussion, as in what is it we're trying to achieve? I think at a general level, we want to see equity between men and women.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

At the same time, is there an equal movement, then, to see men enter trades such as nursing or hairdressing?

[Gail Mitchell]

Absolutely.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Are there initiatives within your department to see that take place?

[Gail Mitchell]

Again, we work closely with the provinces on training. Those are all programs that provinces typically pursue and manage. Again, it is about the labour market and about supporting improved outcomes. Yes, we do support across a vast range, and we fund provinces to provide training.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I have a question for Ms. Kennedy. In the 2016 budget, there is $23.7 million to renew the urban aboriginal strategy. I am just wondering how GBA will be applied as you allocate that funding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Hold that thought until the next round of questioning.

We are going to go over to my Liberal colleagues, starting with Mr. Fraser, who I believe is sharing his time with Ms. Dhillon.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Status of Women officials informed us on Tuesday that a meeting of departmental champions was held on Monday. Is there a GBA champion in your department? Did they attend the meeting?

[Gail Mitchell]

Yes, we do have GBA champions in the department. I did not attend that meeting, but I had a full debrief on the discussion at the meeting.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

You have GBA champions. The rest...?

[Nicole Kennedy]

We don't currently have a GBA champion at INAC.

[Nancy Cheng]

We are looking at the audit of it. We don't propose policies that affect the general public. It is not an area that we would have a representative in.