Evidence of meeting #12 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gba.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Okay, that would be helpful. Again, just a yes or no. Was it done? That would be helpful to us.
I'm curious for both of the ministry witnesses whether any of your departmental proposals, or budget submissions for consideration by cabinet, have ever been turned back because you did not do a GBA analysis, or because you did an inadequate GBA analysis?
3:55 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Off the top, I'm not aware of any.
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
If you're talking since GBA, that's the late nineties. That's a long window, so if you have a more specific time frame...
4 p.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
In recent history, can you remember any times you had a policy proposal or budget submission returned to your department because you had done an inadequate GBA analysis?
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
I can't think of any, but we can undertake a quick review.
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
For INAC, I can't say whether we have had things returned from an external body, but internally we have sent things back to programs and sectors asking them to strengthen their GBA. Internally we do make sure, and we push back. I can't say if...but we will get back to you on that as well.
4 p.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Back to the unemployment insurance decisions, do you have gender-disaggregated data that has been generated to help guide some of those policy decisions around employment insurance?
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Yes, we do.
4 p.m.
NDP
Sheila Malcolmson NDP Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC
Great, thank you.
I also have more of a general question for the Auditor General around some of the conclusions you found in your 2015 report, which was discouraging in some ways. You identified there were some GBA steps that were ignored completely, or in some cases the test was done after the policy decisions had been made or had been submitted, and there was a catch-up. Can you describe a bit more about the results of that inadequate application of GBA?
4 p.m.
Assistant Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The audit is a follow-up to a previous audit, so we would have expected there would have been movement in terms of responding to some of the recommendations, more central support, more guidance, and that the results would be better. The report does carry a more negative tone when we do enter into analyzing some of the initiatives and find they were lacking in many cases. That's the tone of the report in terms of saying why it was not as encouraging as we would like to have seen.
For the points that were made about doing the analysis later, we would want to see that the analysis was completed before you take those policy decisions. If they haven't done that, finishing them off, or doing more after the fact, is not necessarily a negative point from my perspective. I think it still helps the program to understand whether they should change course, or whether, as they modify policy requirements as they move forward with policy renewal, they have more information to go on to align their program. That part we would not consider as a negative point.
All in all, they should be considering it before the decisions are taken.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
Excellent, and that's your time.
We'll go over to Ms. Vandenbeld for seven minutes.
May 5th, 2016 / 4 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I have a question for Ms. Kennedy. We had heard the only department where it was legislated that it was mandatory to have GBA was Immigration. You had mentioned it's mandatory. That's not a legislated requirement.
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No, that's an internal requirement. It's not legislated.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
In terms of any penalties for not achieving it, are there repercussions built into that?
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The repercussion is that your memorandum to cabinet doesn't leave the department until you complete your GBA.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Fantastic.
To Ms. Mitchell, the same question. Is it mandatory? Yes?
4 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Not in a legislated way, as a matter of policy.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
We've talked about some of the barriers, and I know the Auditor General's report pointed out some of those, the lack of data.... You can't act on something if you don't have the desegregated data. Sometimes there isn't the capacity, or the training, and with the timelines sometimes you're under pressure to turn something around quickly.
The one I'm most concerned about is that we heard from other witnesses about the need to have a culture. For instance, in the Department of Immigration, they have champions, they have functional authorities, and then beneath the champions they have other champions. It's not enough in terms of having a focal point for reporting. They also have people who will promote. They called it the carrot and the stick.
I notice you have about 38 GBARs. Are these similar to champions, and is there any discussion between departments on these kinds of best practices?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Strategic Policy, Cabinet and Parliamentary Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
In terms of the role of the GBARs, they form a community of practice of sorts within the department. They provide advice and guidance to the sector leads in developing policies. As to whether they're champions or not, they are champions in their own right, but we do not have an overarching departmental champion at this point in time for gender-based analysis.
In the early days, while we were establishing our program, yes, we did have a champion, but we also found that by taking a centralized approach, and having one unit and one champion, it provided a disincentive toward the incorporation of it into the culture of the department. By embedding it into the programs, and driving accountability into the programs and sectors, we've built in a mechanism to ensure every initiative has a GBA lens to it.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
In ESDC we have a network. We have a centre of expertise, which includes a range of tools and supports. We also have a person half time who plays an important role in pulling things together. We will be putting a champion in place for support, and some of these things we've picked up. There is a network across government of GBA experts, so we do share. I used to work at INAC and had carriage of the GBA file there. I brought some of those practices with me into ESDC.
There's a lot of sharing that happens across, and the thematics on the barriers are fairly consistent across departments. We do share ways to move through it, and I think Nicole's point about moving it into the program areas, and enabling them to own it, is a very important piece of changing the culture and ensuring that people take it on and not see it as something that a central group will do for them. That's key, but of course with that, you have to have the monitoring. You have to have the attention to the delivery of the product, and that's where the accountability is crucial.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Who in your departments is required to take the GBA training? We heard yesterday that all senior officials in CIC are required. Would it be all the senior departmental officials, or would it be the people who are specifically working in this area?
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Strategy and Intergovernmental Relations, Strategic and Service Policy Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
At ESDC, it's at the analyst level. We're in a constant process of seeing how we can improve, and we're looking at whether we should broaden that out to a wider audience, but at the analyst level, it's part of the suite of mandatory training.