Status of Women Committee on Dec. 10th, 2018

[Valerie Gideon]

We've been discussing with national indigenous organizations how to approach that, how to approach either research or outreach in a culturally safe way. At our first meeting of the advisory committee, planned for next month, this will be part of our agenda.

I've had some preliminary discussions with the organizations, but I do think it's important to reflect on what the best approach will be. Even in the external review conducted by Senator Boyer and Dr. Bartlett, they noted the difficulties in having women come forward, the fears women had, and the fact that they believed there were other women there but they were reluctant to do so.

I do think that the approach that is undertaken.... We do have to, if possible, have the support of indigenous women's organizations, so that they can play an important role in the outreach.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Has your department issued any statements to anybody involved in the first nations and Inuit health branch, or to any of the hospitals where women are being flown to receive treatment, to say that forced sterilization is a crime and that it meets the international conventions on torture and genocide? Have you issued any statements warning any of the hospitals where indigenous women who are under first nations health services are being treated? Have any warnings been sent out?

[Valerie Gideon]

We have not issued any specific statement. We have, however, discussed with indigenous women's organizations about providing funding to develop materials for women and for health care partners in order to raise awareness about that issue and also to provide culturally safe guidelines overall with respect to indigenous women's reproductive health.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I guess I'm concerned because the UN Committee Against Torture names Canada and demands immediate action. To me, that's a very shocking thing for our nation. We're not talking about good moms and healthy babies programs; we're talking about a crime that fits the convention on genocide.

After you were made aware of it roughly around the same time that a class action lawsuit was launched against the federal government, I would think there would be some clear steps in place. What are we going to see from the federal government? We know that the government has rejected the UN call to criminalize this behaviour. What concrete steps will you take to make sure this doesn't happen again? We've seen that this has happened in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, northern Ontario. If we keep looking, are we going to keep finding this practice?

What concrete steps will you take to ensure this will never happen again?

[Valerie Gideon]

I think our main role will be to convene federal, provincial and territorial partners, mainstream health organizations, licensing bodies of medical professions and medical associations in order to be able to collaborate on what will be essentially a series of preventative measures and also to redress racism and discriminatory practice in the health system where they exist.

I think having indigenous women's organizations play a leadership role in that is extremely important.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Last week, the first nations chiefs issued a resolution call on the federal government to change the Criminal Code to explicitly outlaw coerced sterilization, because we understand it's happened as late as 2017, maybe later; we don't know. Yet, you've issued no statements saying that this is a crime.

Would you recommend to the minister that this be considered a crime at the federal level, that we have clear laws in place to make sure that this is going to stop, and that it be treated with the seriousness that the UN has called for?

[Valerie Gideon]

I think the Department of Justice has issued a statement on that issue that indicates they are taking a public health approach. We would definitely work with the Department of Justice in issuing our communications.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

The public health approach is different from a criminal approach. You keep talking about it as a public health issue, and I keep talking about it in light of the UN and what the chiefs are calling it, which is a criminal action. Are we going to see it referred to as a criminal action and not just a public health issue, because forced sterilization meets the international convention rules on torture?

[Valerie Gideon]

Again, I'm not from the Department of Justice and I can't speak on their behalf. The Department of Justice has spoken about the criminal acts provisions in the existing legislation in Canada right now that will prevent forced sterilization and protect women.

However, I really cannot go farther. I'm just not a representative of the Department of Justice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

We're now going to move on to Marc Serré. You have the floor for seven minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just want to go back to Mr. Angus's question. During question period today, our minister indicated that it is a crime. Is that your understanding, that where the laws are today, forced sterilization is a crime?

[Valerie Gideon]

My understanding from reading the Department of Justice notes is that existing legislation in Canada does protect women against forced sterilization.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

This is definitely an issue that we have to address. We talk about public health. We talk about education.

I just want to go back a bit to what you said earlier about the working group.

When will this working group begin its work? Who will the members be, and what will be its mandate? If I understand correctly, the idea is not just to hold a single meeting with no follow-up.

[Valerie Gideon]

That's right.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Has the mandate of that working group been determined?

[Valerie Gideon]

It is up to the federal Minister of Health to write to the provincial and territorial ministers of Health to ask them to designate a representative. The Minister of Health Canada will coordinate the activities of the working group, in co-operation with her provincial and territorial colleagues. We will, of course, take part in that group and make sure that the national indigenous women's organizations are well supported to take part in the process.

When the provincial and territorial representatives have been designated, we will set a date for the first meeting. In the meantime, we will work on developing the mandate for the working group. There will be more than one meeting. We will have to work together to determine what structural obstacles exist in the health care system, in order to ensure that indigenous women receive the necessary services to protect their cultural security, among other things.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You referred earlier to the Indspire program. I was present at the awards gala. That is an excellent initiative. Bursaries, for instance, are provided to encourage participation. It's a really good program.

You also mentioned some of the measures in Budget 2017 for midwifery. You mentioned an amount of $6 million.

Do you have any statistics about the impacts of that program? What impact has that investment had on the midwifery profession?

[Valerie Gideon]

This has just begun.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I see.

[Valerie Gideon]

We went through a whole planning process in the past year to make sure that the demonstration sites work well.

We don't want to simply offer training or answer questions about process. We want the services to be provided in the communities. That is why the planning was somewhat long.

We will of course be able to report on the results of these investments in a few years.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

How can we find out a bit more? Our committee can make recommendations to the federal government, but it has to have statistics to base them on. And there are very few.

[Valerie Gideon]

Yes, that is true.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

If I understand correctly, this matter relates to hospitals, which are under provincial jurisdiction. However, I think the federal level should play a role, but which one? If we do not get statistics, it's difficult to do anything.

Did you make recommendations to Health Canada in order to obtain data, in co-operation with the provinces?

[Valerie Gideon]

There are already data on surgical procedures in this area that are performed in hospitals all over Canada.

The Canadian Institute for Health Information has already gathered such statistics from the provinces and territories. We could, therefore, work with that organization to see how we could obtain more specific information.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You also spoke about public health, but from a different perspective than Mr. Angus; Mr. Angus was talking about health care in the correctional environment. I'd like to mention, for instance, the Northern Ontario School of Medicine, which has a mandate to teach medicine. It is the newest medical school created in the last 40 years, if I am not mistaken.

Regarding education—and I don't mean a public education program—do you have any recommendations to make about federal programs that would involve all of health care, from start to finish?

It's really a cultural issue. There is a real judicial issue. This committee has already discussed incarcerated indigenous women. Their situation is awful.

As for education in the health area, certain things can be done.

Should we consider a broader medical education program? Even if the provinces don't agree, we could do something at the federal level.