Evidence of meeting #41 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was statistics.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Justine Akman  Director General, Policy and External Relations Directorate, Status of Women Canada
Andrew Heisz  Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Lucie Desforges  Director General, Women's Program and Regional Operations Directorate, Status of Women Canada
Anne Milan  Chief, Labour Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Shereen Benzvy Miller  Assistant Deputy Minister, Small Business, Tourism and Marketplace Services, Department of Industry
Doug Murphy  Director General, Social Development Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
Andrew Brown  Executive Director, Employment Insurance Policy, Skills and Employment Branch, Department of Employment and Social Development
Drew Leyburne  Director General, Strategic Policy Branch, Strategic Policy and Results Sector, Department of Natural Resources

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Good morning, and welcome. We are excited to be beginning our new study on the economic security of women.

We have some excellent witnesses with us today. From Status of Women Canada, we have Lucie Desforges, the director general of the women's program and regional operations directorate; and Justine Akman, the director general of the policy and external relations directorate. From Statistics Canada, we have Andrew Heisz, assistant director of the income statistics division; and Anne Milan, the chief of the labour statistics division.

We are pleased to have you here today, and we'll begin with your opening seven minutes of comments, beginning with Ms. Akman.

You may begin.

8:45 a.m.

Justine Akman Director General, Policy and External Relations Directorate, Status of Women Canada

Thank you.

I'm pleased to be here today as you launch your study on the economic security of women and their equal participation in the economy. This study is relevant and timely. Significant momentum to address gender disparities has been created, from achieving gender parity in federal cabinet to the commitment to include gender-based analysis in federal budgets, starting in 2017.

This study will help drive forward our shared goal to achieve equality for women, particularly for the most vulnerable, including indigenous women, visible minorities, persons with disabilities, and youth. While there has been progress, there is still much more to do.

The Canadian gender pay gap is the eighth largest among OECD countries. According to the most recent data available, the average earnings for women in all full-time jobs were 73.7% of men's earnings in 2014, suggesting a gap of just over 26%. For all tenures—full-time and part-time—women earn 68.4% of what men earn, a wage gap of 32%.

Two-thirds of part-time workers are women, concentrated in sectors that are traditionally lower paying, such as teaching, nursing, sales, and service industries. Women face barriers to achieving full economic equality in Canada, including systemic discrimination or bias and also social roles and norms such as being primary caregivers.

When a diversity lens is applied to the economic situation for women in Canada, it becomes more clear that some groups of women are more significantly disadvantaged than others. For example, 13.3% of women live in poverty, but the rate of poverty for indigenous women and single mothers is three times that.

Even for those groups of women who have made advances, barriers remain. For example, women represent roughly 61% of post-secondary graduates in Canada. In some male-dominated sectors, such as science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, STEM, the numbers are improving. In 2011, women aged 24 to 34 represented 39% of graduates in STEM. But in 2015, only 22% of workers in STEM fields were women, suggesting that barriers exist not only in the school-to-job transition but in retention of women in these fields.

In other areas, women collectively have made little progress. For example, from 1997 to 2013, the percentage of Canadian workers earning the minimum wage who were women remained stable at 59%.

Achieving equality for all groups of women requires a collaborative effort across the federal government, but also with provincial and territorial governments. Employers and society also play a significant role. Consider, for example, the gender wage gap. Reducing the wage gap requires looking at caregiving, which overall remains a gendered role most often performed by women. Addressing this challenge requires joint efforts between governments and employers, such as enabling more equal take-up of parental leave; increasing flexibility in the workplace, such as for scheduling and leave; and creating more family-friendly workplace policies for men and women.

In terms of the federal role, a range of initiatives is under way that seeks to address some of the common issues that women face in maintaining labour market attachment. You'll hear more about these when my colleagues from other departments come to committee. Some examples are more flexible work arrangements under the Canada Labour Code, changes to employment insurance and parental benefits, and the development of a framework for early learning and child care.

Status of Women Canada acts as a centre of excellence on gender issues, as you're very aware at this time of the year. We develop training tools for gender-based analysis plus. We create networks, promote information sharing, and provide advice, expertise, and guidance to departments on GBA+ implementation. We work with departments responsible for addressing employment and economic issues, both to build their capacity in GBA+ and also on specific strategic proposals.

The agency also engages in targeted actions that support the Government of Canada's efforts. For example, the agency promoted economic security for women by funding a cluster of projects in rural and remote areas through our women's program. These projects broke down silos, leading to more collaborative approaches to program and service delivery, and improved access for women to employment in these areas.

We have also launched a call for proposals to empower indigenous women to create stronger communities, in particular to address issues affecting them or hindering their advancement in all aspects of life. The agency has also funded economic prosperity projects to increase the participation of women in key sectors of the economy, as well as in leadership roles in such diverse domains as the mining and construction sectors.

In addition to our targeted actions that complement the mandate of other departments, the agency also supports improved access to data. Strong and reliable disaggregated data is the foundation of good policy and programming.

For over 25 years, Status of Women has contributed funding for Women in Canada, the pre-eminent and comprehensive statistical portrait of women in Canada. The seventh edition of Women in Canada contains 14 chapters, including on women's economic well-being, education, women with disabilities, labour force participation, and indigenous women.

Budget 2016 also allocated new resources to the agency for a dedicated research and analysis unit. These new funds will allow us to lay the groundwork for future collaboration with Statistics Canada to address current data gaps. This would support a broad range of data needed to advance future policy and program development in both the public and private sectors.

The forum of federal-provincial-territorial ministers responsible for the Status of Women is working to identify actions that can be taken to address the gender wage gap, including through data collection.

Going forward, to address women's economic security and their equal participation in the economy, it will be imperative to continue to encourage and engage leadership across governments; create and support interdepartmental and inter-jurisdictional networks to facilitate, among other things, the collection of shared and disaggregated data and indicators; and encourage collaborative partnerships between levels of government, non-governmental organizations, institutions, and employers.

This committee's work will help inform and strengthen future work of Status of Women and our other colleagues in other departments. We very much look forward to this study and to the final report of this committee.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Now we'll hear from Andrew Heisz from Statistics Canada.

8:50 a.m.

Andrew Heisz Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Good morning, and thank you.

I will speak in English, but you may ask your questions in French if you wish.

I have a presentation for you today. If you'd like, I can guide you through the presentation and inform you when I'm changing slides.

I'll begin with slide 1. As Canada's national statistical office, Statistics Canada is responsible for the systematic and coordinated collection of data related to women and girls. Together, the data we collect at Statistics Canada cover the wide spectrum of socio-economic conditions affecting women, such as the representation of women in the labour force, the enrolment of women in post-secondary education....

It appears to me that maybe we don't have the deck. Am I right?

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

You're exactly correct. We don't have the deck.

8:50 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

I guess you don't have a photocopier hidden in the back.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Not in my pocket.

8:50 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Is it critical for your remarks?

8:50 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

I think it would be helpful, but certainly it's not critical. I can try my best to walk you through it.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Let's continue without it.

8:50 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

Okay. I'll try my best to convey what the slides would look like, were you able to see them. Honestly, some of them are just text slides, so we're not too far behind.

For the purposes of this presentation, I'll focus on four high-level topics. The first will be post-secondary access and attainment. The second will be wage and occupational differences. The third will be women with low income. The fourth will be retirement preparedness for women.

Slide 3 presents selected results for women in the area of post-secondary access and attainment. My colleague from Status of Women also gave some similar results. Following a long-trending increase in graduation rates, women now complete post-secondary at higher rates than men, and are also well represented in co-op programs. Particular interest is often paid to the share of women in STEM fields—science, technology, engineering, and mathematics—partly because it could reflect an influence of gender stereotypes about female and male capabilities that steer girls and boys, women and men, toward different educational and career paths.

Slide 4 looks at how young women are less likely to choose STEM studies than men. A recent study recorded high school math scores from the year 2000 for a cohort of Canadian girls and boys. They were then followed up 10 years later to determine if these mathematics scores were related to STEM program choice at university.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

If I may, I'll interrupt for a second.

If you have your iPads with you, the presentation is accessible on your iPads.

I'm sorry, Mr. Heisz. I'm giving you extra time at the end to make up for all these interruptions.

8:55 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

I'm going extra slowly just for that reason.

For those of you who are following along, I'm on slide 4, which shows a graph comparing the entrance into STEM fields for girls and boys and women and men according to their grade 10 mathematics scores. Essentially, the graphic shows that even women with high grade 10 math scores were less likely to enter STEM fields than were men or boys who had high grade 10 math scores at the same time.

Going on to slide 5, in the next two slides I will discuss wage and occupational differences between men and women. In 2016, the average hourly wage of full-time women workers was 88% that of men. I'd like to highlight that there are different ways to calculate the gender wage gap. The one that I'm choosing to present here shows the hourly wage of women working full time, but you could also look at the annual earnings of women overall and you could look at the annual earnings of women who worked only full year, full time. They would give different levels. An important feature is that the wage gap is narrowing regardless of which level you use.

The wage gap persists even between men and women with the same level of education. For example, in comparing men and women with a bachelor’s degree, women’s hourly wages were still 88% that of men in 2016. Likewise, women working in university-level STEM-related occupations earned on average $61,000 annually, compared to $71,000 earned by men. Part of the gender wage difference might be associated with the share of women who attain senior management positions. In the government sector, where employment equity legislation is in place, women are slightly more likely than men to be incumbent in leadership positions. In the private sector, only 26% of senior managers were women. Indeed, turning to slide 6, while the share of the top 1% of earners who were women rose steadily from 10% in the mid-1980s to more than 20% in recent years, the share is still well below 50%.

Moving to slide 7, I'll switch to talking a bit about low income. Low income, of course, is a strong signal of low economic well-being. It is important to underscore that low income is measured at the family level, so family characteristics play an important role in understanding low income. Many of the numbers I present are family-level statistics rather than those for women specifically.

Although family incomes have grown steadily over the past two decades, low income for women has been fairly steady, neither rising nor falling. In 2014, 13.5% of women lived in families with low income. This compares to 12.5% of men. Low income is higher for women and men in certain socio-economic groups, such as aboriginal persons, recent immigrants, persons with disabilities, unattached persons, lone parents, and persons belonging to a visible minority group. Lone-parent families, unattached seniors, and women aged 75 and over stand out as groups where low income is much higher for women than men. For example, women aged 75 and over had a low-income rate of 17%, compared to 9.4% for men.

Going to slide 8, it is well known that federal government transfers reduce low income. Different transfer programs affect different family types. For example, older families may receive OAS and GIS, while younger families are more likely to receive child benefits or employment insurance. In slide 8, we show how much higher the low-income rate would have been for different family types if their income did not include their main federal transfers. OAS and GIS reduce the low-income rates of elderly unattached and couples by a large margin, while child benefits reduce the low-income rates among lone parents and couples, though by a lesser degree.

Looking at elderly unattached women, we see that their low-income rate was 30%, but without their OAS and GIS it would have been 25% higher. Looking at women in lone-mother families, we see that their low-income rate was 40% in 2014, but would have been 8% higher without child benefits. In some cases, the transfer is not enough to lift the family above the low-income threshold, but it still reduces the gap, that is, the dollar shortfall below the low-income threshold for that family. For example, for women in lone-mother families, the low-income gap averaged $11,400. That means their shortfall, on average, was $11,400 below the low-income threshold, but it would have been nearly $20,000 without the child benefits they received.

On slide 9, I introduce our final topic today, which is retirement preparedness. Briefly, moving to slide 10, unattached women and lone mothers were less confident about their retirement prospects than other family groups were. They were less likely to be planning for their retirement. They were less likely to think their retirement income would be adequate, and for earlier retirees living unattached, they were less likely to think their current retirement income was adequate.

That brings me to the end of my discussion. Thank you very much.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu

Excellent.

We will begin our round of questioning for seven minutes with my colleagues on the Liberal side, starting with Ms. Ludwig.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Good morning. Thank you for your excellent presentations.

Looking at the position of women in Canada is of great importance to this committee. Recently the federal government announced, in the 2016 budget, the Canada child benefit, which is tax-free. How significant is that to women living under the low-income status line?

9 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

We don't have statistics on the new Canada child benefit, but we do have statistics related to the previous child benefits that were available to families with children. I can say that they have a significant impact on the low-income rate and the numbers of women and children living under the low-income lines.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Great. Considering that this Canada child benefit now is tax-free, hopefully it will have a greater benefit for these women. Would that be fair to say?

9 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

I'd prefer to wait and see the numbers. It would depend on the magnitude of the benefit on an after-tax basis and how that would....

You're right that the new one is not taxed and that the old one was taxable, or some of them were taxable. The UCCB, for example, was taxable. I think we want to look at the numbers when they come in and see how that all balances out in the end.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Thank you.

During the discussion this morning, there was definitely a correlation between education and levels of income. I'm wondering if you can speak to the difference in levels of income and education, for example, in trades training. We know there has been a significant and increasing number of women participating in post-secondary education, particularly in universities, but we haven't seen the same significant comparable increase for women in the area of trades.

Looking at the income from trades, as well as the shorter time for education and greater application within the field, how significant is it that women are more involved or have more access to trades training and access to trades positions in Canada?

9 a.m.

Director General, Policy and External Relations Directorate, Status of Women Canada

Justine Akman

I'll try to answer that at a high level.

As you've mentioned, women are participating more in STEM education, but resulting levels of employment in STEM are not reflective of their education rates. When they do get into the STEM field, they tend to stay in lower-paying jobs and not rise in the ranks in the same way men do.

So, clearly, it's an area that governments are focused on at all levels. In particular, in resource-intensive economies, it would be very important that women continue to get training, apprenticeship training, skilled trades training, etc., so they can enter the workforce and perhaps move out of poverty in some cases. Then, of course, it's very important to adjust the wage gap as well now that there are an increasing number of women in more senior level positions in these industries.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Great, thank you.

Throughout your research and the data you've collected, have you done a study or an analysis of rural versus urban, in terms of women and men and their wage gaps, and also of regional differences in Canada?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Director, Income Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Andrew Heisz

I'm not aware of a study that focuses specifically on those issues. I'm probably not the best expert on the wage gap to answer that, but I believe we do have more statistics available at Statistics Canada on the gender wage gap according to different characteristics, such as occupation of employment and industry of employment. These would make up part of our Women in Canada series that compiles statistics on women, which is available on the Statistics Canada website.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Ludwig Liberal New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Okay.

Ms. Akman?

9:05 a.m.

Director General, Policy and External Relations Directorate, Status of Women Canada

Justine Akman

At least in the last studies I looked at, I think the wage gap was worst in Alberta. This was before oil prices declined. As I mentioned before, it does tend to be worse in resource-intensive economies.

I also don't have a study top of mind, but I'm sure that's information we would be able to access for you, if you would like, in terms of follow-up.