Status of Women Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2017

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Yes. Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Brown and is related to that of a colleague who previously asked other witnesses a question on parental leave, but didn't have enough time. I was fortunate, as I was able to take 10 weeks at the time. That was the maximum I could take for my children.

But there is a stigma attached to taking parental leave. What is the department doing to try to promote this more? Moving forward, what benefit can taking parental leave be, and are there any statistics you have that indicate that? Are there any specific recommendations?

[Andrew Brown]

I think what I can do first is to speak about what we know from the EI program specifically and the use of that program and parental benefits by men and women. Then I can speak to some of the academic research we are aware of that helps to inform our policy development.

In terms of taking a look at parental benefits, which are of course available to men and women, they continue to be used predominantly by women. About 86% of the parental benefits are taken by women and only 14% by men.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Can we talk about what we can do to change that?

[Andrew Brown]

Right now with the program, of course, it is up to parents to decide how they'd like to share those benefits. What we know from some of the academic research is that it tends to require additional incentives to get men to take parental benefits at an increased rate. This research has been coming from some of the academics, including right here in this country. We heard reference to Brock University earlier. Also, in comparing the Quebec parental insurance program with the EI program for maternity and parental benefits, in Quebec specifically there is a much higher rate of use of parental benefits by men than in the rest of the country. The latest Statistics Canada data on that is showing that about 12% of men in the rest of Canada versus approximately 85% of men in the province of Quebec will make use of some parental benefits.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

This question is for you, Ms. Miller, on the great work you're doing at ISED, with all of the initiatives that have been started and are being promoted. In the limited time I have, I want to focus on the statistics in regard to woman entrepreneurs and how we can....

You have an initiative with FedDev for funding over two years. I want to ask about it. I know it's just starting, but is there a plan to roll this out to other economic development agencies across the country? In my region, it's FedNor. Can FedNor access some of these funds? I just want to get a bit more of a sense from you of this initiative expanding to all the economic development agencies.

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

That's a great question. Thank you so much.

All the regional development agencies have different models for assistance and funding. When FedDev announced the $880,000 over two years to support Fierce Founders, that initiative arose partly because the incubator Communitech came to FedDev and said they'd really like to support women entrepreneurs in this way. They already had a very sound model.

In a way it is really dependent on what resources are available in those communities. FedNor, for example, has invested $3.6 million since 2006 in supporting microcredit to women in northern Ontario through the PARO Centre for Women's Enterprise.

It often has to do with community resources and their capacity to roll out programs, but all the development agencies have initiatives in this area.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

I only have 20 seconds. Mr. Murphy, I'm looking more on the senior caregiver side. What can we do specifically to promote that when we look at some of the poverty levels among seniors, especially women and single women? Maybe we could table the answer for later.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's a great question for later.

We'll go to Ms. Vecchio for seven minutes.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to start by talking about the early learning and child care framework, which has been talked about today. It's wonderful to see Drew Leyburne here. We're both residents of Sparta, Ontario, a huge area, but one thing that's very important to me, when we're looking at this framework, is how we are approaching the differences between the rural and urban settings. How are you doing that? When you're living on a farm, you may be five minutes from house to house or 15 to 20 minutes outside a city that may have a facility for this. What are some of the things you're thinking of to bridge that?

[Doug Murphy]

That's an excellent question.

We're working with provinces and territories, which are the primary deliverers of child care. One of the principles I mentioned was inclusiveness. Within the bounds of a developing framework that involves the federal, provincial, and territorial governments, we want to ensure that child care is available for a variety of different circumstances.

At this point I can't get into how it will roll out in terms of the urban-rural split, but accessibility to child care is very important.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I want to add to that the ability to do shift work. I come from an area that had primarily automotive employment. The fact is shift work was predominant in our area and making sure that there is something 24 hours.... I'll be honest, it's not something that I'm 100% behind.

I think child care is extremely important. There are so many different mechanisms for using child care and many varieties, whether it's at-home child care in where you have a caregiver within the home with five children, and things of that sort.

Are these things going to be looked at or is it going to be looked at more as an institutional area?

[Doug Murphy]

The very issues that you have raised, including non-standard work, will be within the realm of developing the framework.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That's awesome.

[Doug Murphy]

Again, that's being manifested under the inclusiveness and accessibility of the child care, but those issues are important and recognized.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Great. I'm glad I have your ear because I want to make sure that when we're looking at this framework and if we are going forward, it has to be inclusive of those two factors. Thank you very much.

Andrew Brown, thank you very much for the information. What increase and take-up in parental leave have we seen in the last five to 10 years by men? Being the critic, I've looked at many of these figures. What have the increases or decreases been?

[Andrew Brown]

There has not been a large increase in men taking parental benefits over that period of time. We can certainly go back to the Statistics Canada data, but I think it has been a slow uptick.

To build a bit further on your question, it's not just a matter of the government programs, but also the kind of supports that are provided in the workplace, and sometimes supplementary payments that may or may not be provided by employers. That can create an incentive for parents, including fathers, to take a longer period of parental leave.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That's one thing I want to look at. We've talked a lot about the wage issues. Is there any data showing that if a woman were to take time off and receive the maximum benefit, which I believe right now is $555...? Is it still around $555 per week?

[Andrew Brown]

That's about right.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

They're getting that. Is one of the reasons we're seeing a huge gap between men and women in terms of what they are bringing home as net income that they say no? The woman takes it because there's less of a gap. So when it comes to family budgets this is what we're needing to do. Is there any data showing the causality of that?

[Andrew Brown]

That's not data that we have, but that is certainly one of the things that make their way into our thinking, that families would be making the decision in terms of who would provide care on a financial basis. If that is a household where a women is earning less than her partner, she may be the one to provide care because it's less of a hit to the family's income.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay.

When we're talking about the top-up in incentives for women, I dealt with employment insurance for many years, where we saw a top-up, through the Thames Valley District School Board, for any of our teachers taking time off. Would those not be also available to the men regardless? It's going to be gender-balanced, is it not, or are we seeing a gender imbalance when it comes to these top-ups, men versus women?

[Andrew Brown]

In terms of top-ups, that's something that would be in the hands of the employers. To my knowledge, those would typically be available to men and women.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay.

I'll move on to the topic of financing for women doing business. We see a huge gap when it comes to men being financed. What is the primary reason? Are we looking at the fact of the business plan? Are we looking at financial backing? What is the cause of someone being denied, rather than it just being women versus men? What is it? Is it the business plan that's flawed? What are the stats on that?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

Thank you for the question.

It's not just denial; they also may not ask for financing and just don't get financing. We don't know specifically what the cause is. That's part of what we're looking at. It is potentially a question of lack of financial literacy. BDC is exploring this, because it is an area that they will likely provide consulting services on.

It's probably because of their not asking for financing, and probably not having the business plan properly vetted. Interestingly, if you go to events with women entrepreneurs, they will tell you that there are still locations where they are being asked if their father will sign for a loan.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

[Inaudible--Editor]