Status of Women Committee on March 7th, 2017

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Good afternoon and welcome.

We're happy to be here this afternoon for our panel discussion on the participation of women in politics. We're very pleased to have with us today Victoria deJong from Edmonton Griesbach, Elinor McNamee-Annett from Delta, Estelle Ah-Kiow from Mississauga—Lakeshore, and Melinda Phuong from Markham—Thornhill.

Welcome, ladies. You'll each have three minutes to make your opening comments, and then we'll go to questions.

Melinda, we'll start with you.

[Melinda Phuong, As an Individual]

My name is Melinda Julie Phuong. I am representing the riding of Markham—Thornhill. I am honoured to be here today to talk about how cyber-bullying in schools affects girls' decisions to take on leadership roles in the future.

As a delegate and educator, I intend to shed light on this issue so that misogynistic and sexist comments online will become non-existent, as will the hesitation of girls and young women with regard to leadership moving forward.

Although cyber-bullying affects everyone, research in the U.K. and U.S. shows that girls are significantly more likely to be cyber-bullied than are boys. I believe this is because girls and women are targeted based on their gender, something that boys and men don't seem to face as regularly.

Since ignoring and blocking people on social media are only band-aid solutions, we need to examine underlying problems. Canadian research from 2013 shows that both boys and girls reported similar rates of being perpetrators, whereas victims of cyber-bullying were more likely to be girls. Therefore, we can't assume that boys are the only ones making such revolting comments to girls.

As bell hooks says, “Patriarchy has no gender.” When all children fail to learn that these types of comments are wrong, this can be traumatic to girls' self-esteem and well-being. These girls may grow up no longer believing that they can be anything they want to be.

While I was teaching, I would have conversations with my high school students about cyber-bullying. It was very frightening to hear that some of these students didn't see anything wrong with the sexist and misogynistic comments they were making online. In fact, they believed they were doing these girls a favour.

What really broke my heart was hearing some of these girls say that because of cyber-bullying, they had actually avoided going to school sometimes, and they'd avoided joining clubs, trying out for sports, and even running for student council to dodge any negative attention or even more cyber-bullying. Not a single boy I asked had the same worries.

The graduate student in me knows that these casual conversations are not things that can be generalized, but as reported recently on CBC, women politicians are facing an increase in sexist comments online. I am sure I am not the only woman in this room who has personally dealt with cyber-bullying either. Really, if we have girls who are not going to school because of cyber-bullying, let alone avoiding leadership opportunities, Canadians need to look at what's going on. This is not okay.

We talk about building resilience in young children, which is essential for them to be successful in life, but we also need to change the way children are being socialized. Anti-cyber-bullying policies likely won't do much alone, but supporting organizations that do meaningful work on bullying, supporting inclusion-based policies, and funding longitudinal research to examine long-term effects of cyber-bullying on girls could be beneficial.

Cyber-bullying transcends all party lines. Women's issues transcend all party lines. For public leaders and role models for young Canadians, calling out and speaking up against cyber-bullying of your women colleagues is a step in the right direction, because if girls keep shutting out the possibilities of seeing themselves as leaders early in life, then efforts to get them to run for office or become CEOs as women will not get any easier.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That was excellent. Thank you very much.

We'll go to Victoria deJong.

You have three minutes as well.

[Victoria deJong, As an Individual]

Thank you so much for having us today.

My name is Victoria deJong, and I am the delegate for Edmonton Griesbach. For the next few minutes, I'll be talking about women's political participation and the way parties need to step up to run women.

As I'm sure we all know, women are less likely than similarly educated men to consider themselves qualified to run for office. Women have to be asked an average of five or more times before they run for office, while men will often come up with the idea on their own. Women in general will consider the idea of running significantly less often than men, for reasons that go beyond the scope of this three-minute presentation. These are all facts that we know to be true, based on research that organizations such as Equal Voice have compiled. These facts are not up for debate.

I see two steps that need to be taken to improve women's direct participation in politics, the first being that more specialized research needs to be done to identify the reasons that diverse groups of women differ in their participation. While only 26% of members of the House of Commons are women, these women are more often than not a fairly homogenous group. If we look around the table at the status of women committee, we don't see very much diversity in the women who are here today.

Although we have evidence of the barriers that exist, more research needs to be done to concretely identify the barriers that stop indigenous women, other women of colour, LGBTQ women, disabled women, and other marginalized groups from running for office and engaging politically.

Another group that is often overlooked is girls, as Melinda just talked about. The study of children and their conceptions of leadership and self-confidence is largely under-researched, as well as the way that these conceptions shift from childhood to teenagehood to adulthood.

The second step that I want to focus on and believe to be one of the most important, because it involves direct action, is this. We know, based on research, that the issue of under-representation of women in the political sphere does not lie with voters. An approximately similar percentage of women and men who are nominated will win seats in federal elections, so the issue lies not with voters but with the parties that run candidates.

I'd like therefore to speak to the members of this committee not as a committee of the whole but as members of your parties. You all have the responsibility to make sure that nominating women and nominating diverse women are a priority for each of your parties.

Party members have a duty to identify the women in communities across the country who do incredible and important work in their communities. Parties must lower the barriers to running by providing information and assistance to women who consider running and lowering the financial burden on women who run for office—and all people who run for office. Your parties must make it a priority to recruit diverse groups of women, because as the Daughters of the Vote initiative shows, Canada has no shortage of incredible, talented women who are willing and able to take their seats.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

Now we go to Estelle Ah-Kiow for three minutes.

[Estelle Ah-Kiow, As an Individual]

Good afternoon. Bonsoir. I'm Estelle Ah-Kiow, the delegate from Mississauga—Lakeshore riding.

Today I'd like to talk to you about the importance of having more diversity in the realm of educational leadership. I believe that one of the greatest challenges facing the Canadian education system is the immense task of making sure that every student is equipped with the knowledge and skills they need to navigate our complex economies and worlds.

In designing effective education programs and policies, we need innovative thinkers who are able to view fundamental questions of education policy through a global and comprehensive lens and from a variety of vantage points. If we are serious about making sure that our education system works for everyone, we simply cannot afford not to fully tap into all our available human resources, half of whom are made up of women. Overall, the field of education is a woman-dominated one, with more than three-quarters of public school teachers being female; however, only 30% of school administrators are female, and the percentage of minority female administrators is only 6.8%.

Statistics show that the education sector tends to be more gender-balanced than other areas, even though full parity is a long way off.

What concerns me most, however, is the incredibly low number of women from visible minority groups. According to a Ryerson University study, the number is dropping every year.

As a young, female, visible minority school board trustee, I see this in motion in my own life. Let me tell you, when I go to national conferences I am often mistaken for an assistant or a staff member. I think this urgently needs to change.

The student population in our school boards is becoming increasingly diverse. Our schools are serving more and more new Canadians, immigrants, and refugees. Unfortunately, there is still a long way to go before school board leaders look like the students they are serving.

I believe that it's critical for us to have more diversity among the leaders whose decisions directly affect the next generation of Canadians.

I don't think it's possible to fully appreciate, on an organic level, what newcomers, particularly refugees and immigrants, go through, unless you have experienced it yourself. I think we need people who represent Canada's diverse makeup if the distinct needs of these communities are to be recognized and understood. That is why I firmly believe that more of the people running our schools and school boards need to reflect the diverse populations they serve.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you very much.

We go now to Elinor McNamee-Annett, for three minutes.

[Elinor McNamee-Annett, As an Individual]

Thank you.

Today, there are only nine female leaders of government in the world. Two countries have gender parity in Parliament, Canada not being one of them, and despite women making up 47% of the workforce, only 5.3% of CEOs in Canada are women. Based on today's progress rate, it will take over 200 years for women to achieve equality in the workplace. That's not good enough.

I'm not here today to tell you that change needs to happen. None of us would be here if we didn't already know that to be true. I'm here to tell you that these issues cannot wait and that by focusing on diversity in leadership we can expedite that change together.

There will be many solutions needed to address an issue so vast as gender equality, but what the research so clearly shows us is that when women lead and are in positions of power, policies, norms, institutions, and mindsets change. By having women in these positions, we can expedite substantive change, but first we must focus on removing those seemingly insurmountable barriers.

I have had the privilege of supporting a program at the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade called the women's leadership circle. This past year, we collaborated with the WEB Alliance and the Province of B.C. to host one of North America's largest gatherings on gender equality, the We for She conference. Understanding that women play a key role in economic growth, this conference saw over 1,500 business leaders and young women in high school come together to discuss the challenges, successes, and practical actions to create gender equality in the workplace, all centred around the theme of empowering and championing the next generation.

One of the key action plans that arose from this conference was the need to promote and advocate for diversity. You see, when we broadly discuss barriers to leadership for women, there are more barriers than just gender that need to be addressed. Those policies, norms, institutions, and mindsets that are currently so deeply steeped in bias will not be changed unless diverse women are leading from the top.

I am so deeply grateful for the opportunity to testify in front of this committee today. However, I am also very cognizant of the fact that my voice is being heard because doors have been opened for me that have not been available to other women.

Even though I have faced my own barriers and challenges, the unfortunate truth is that women attaining those coveted leadership positions far too often look like me: white, middle-class, educated, cisgendered, able-bodied women. We cannot let the mistakes of history repeat themselves and allow this movement to be an exclusionary one. We won't get there unless we get there together, because none of us progress if some of us are left behind.

This is what I implore this committee. If you truly want to create substantive change, empower women to lead, but put diversity at the forefront of everything you do. When we have true diversity in leadership, change will come. However, we first need to focus on tangible policy solutions that break down barriers to leadership for all women. We need to do this now, and we need to do it together.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

These are excellent speeches.

Now we're going to go into our round of questions. In order to give everybody a chance, we're going to go one party at a time, one question at a time until we run out of time.

We'll start with Ms. Vandenbeld.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank all of you because you're all incredibly articulate and well researched, and you're making very compelling arguments. Thank you very much for testifying.

One of the things we have as elected leaders in this country is not just a voice but a megaphone, so the question we ask ourselves is which voices to amplify. You've made a very strong case that we need to make sure we're amplifying voices of diverse groups in our country.

My specific question is for Ms. deJong. Before I entered electoral politics, women in politics was what I worked on internationally as the manager of iKNOW Politics, and your research is absolutely correct. There are a number of studies showing that the gap between the number of men and women who even consider politics as an option, or have ever thought about politics, is actually getting larger among college-age men and women.

It seems that the younger generation, even though they are, in my view, more engaged politically in terms of their knowledge and their advocacy, are less likely to join political parties and run for office. What do you think we can do to reverse that, and what are the reasons why that might be happening?

[Victoria deJong]

I don't think I can speak for every single person in my generation, but for me and my social circles I think one of the biggest factors is a disillusionment in what they think government can do for them. They see a disconnect between government and how it serves youth. I think one way to fix that would be for parties to make an effort to reach out to more young people. You see a lot of campus political party organizations connecting more like that.

Just reaching out and consulting with young people about the policies that parties could put in place would serve those young people, because I think that a lot of times parties don't consider the youth vote as being a really strong force historically. Maybe now it's a little bit different. Making sure that youth are a priority would be the biggest thing.

[Anita Vandenbeld, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Thank you.

We'll go around and then come back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Sure.

We'll go to Peter Kent for a question.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thanks to all of you for very solid presentations, and to your counterparts from other ridings across the country.

To Melinda's point about cyber-bullying, this is a new and vicious phenomenon. Many of the politicians around this table have been subject to it in their own ways, although with the experiences of longer lives and greater experience we are probably better able to ignore some of the most vicious material that we see.

I was known as “pinhead” when I was in junior high school. I did avoid class on more than a few occasions for exactly that reason. Social media today is much more brutal and much more psychologically brutalizing. We certainly recognize that and it's something that I think we all have to address.

I would comment, Elinor, on your point about the seemingly insurmountable challenges. I came from the broadcasting industry, from journalism. I don't know how many conventions I went to in Canada where there was a panel whose members would ask, why don't we have women CEOs on these round tables? Women have become, in the broadcasting industry and in the print media—which is also my background—very senior managers, very capable executives.

However, for those ultimate positions, there is very much a quality of life consideration involved—sometimes family, but sometimes simply not wanting to get involved in these positions for the reasons we heard regarding the younger generation's not wanting to get down and dirty in what is still, in the political world, a not always pleasant environment.

I'm just wondering whether you have any thoughts on achieving that and, from your board of trade experience, whether you have any solutions. At one of the broadcasting conferences I went to—the Canadian Association of Broadcasters—when a male member of the panel, who is still a journalist today, was asked, how do we get more women CEOs in broadcasting, he said, “We'll just make them”. Obviously it's an attitude that shouldn't fly. I'm just wondering what your thoughts on that might be.

[Elinor McNamee-Annett]

Sure. I think that's a very interesting question because when we are looking at women in those most senior levels of leadership, if they are having to make that choice, why aren't workplaces erasing that choice with policy? Why aren't they becoming more flexible to women's schedules? Why are those responsibilities falling to just women outside of the workplace?

Maybe there is a level of choice but I don't think that is the biggest barrier to women attaining the highest levels of the C-suites in leadership right now. Perhaps there absolutely is a lifestyle consideration with any of that, but I think there are ways that workplaces and employers can implement policy to make the workplace more accessible for women.

Just from a personal anecdote, I know that Pacific Blue Cross in B.C. specifically has put in place some really fantastic policies. Jan K. Grude, the CEO, sat on the Women's Leadership Circle when I was involved with that. He talked about how he worked individually with women in high leadership to really ask what they need to be supported. Sometimes it's child care. Sometimes it's that extra vacation time to take care of their families. It's a bigger question than a lifestyle decision.

I think we also need to start identifying talent in the workplace early and put mentorship in place and have CEOs and high level executives mentoring women from early on. I don't think there's a single answer to your question. Yes, lifestyle might be a consideration, but I think there is a lot more to consider than just that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

All right.

We'll go over to you, Ms. Malcolmson, for a question.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thanks, Chair.

First, I want to raise my hands to the two hours of witnesses we had this morning from Daughters of the Vote. They were awesome—such strong work. I really want to thank you for your leadership on this issue.

From the New Democratic Party, on the question of political representation, 43% of our nominated candidates were women and 40% of our MPs were women. So you're quite right about the parallel. If we get women on the ballot, then the voters choose them. That rule for the NDP is an equity rule.

The membership of the riding association cannot go to a vote to choose their candidate until they can prove that they've exhausted all options to get disabled, racialized, or indigenous persons, or women. You can hit it on any of those marks.

We still have more work to do, though. There are, we know now, 338 more, plus all the other young women who were nominated who didn't get to come here. We know what wealth there is in the country.

I'd love to hear just quickly from each of you, maybe starting with Melinda, one thing that a political party could do that would make you more likely to say yes when you get approached by your riding association, whether it's to run as trustee, provincial, federal, or anything.

[Melinda Phuong]

For me, as a youth, having youth engagement is very critical. Also, because I'm a teacher, I think the way we engage youth right now is almost symbolic. We'll just say, “We'll add a youth to be at the table to talk about youth issues”, and that's it. It's almost tokenism but for young people, whereas if we really want to engage youth, we need to start from the beginning. We need to incorporate them in all the decisions and not just say, “We'll make all of these and then you just show up at this event and you'll help out and you'll volunteer”, and that's it.

For me, if I were a bit younger and starting off, to have more of that direct engagement in policies, in issues at stake, and to feel that I'm more proud of the process from beginning to when I decide to run would be a way to push me. Then I would feel that this party is actually devoted to helping youth and bringing on change and I'm included in this conversation.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

If you saw that as a younger person, you'd be more likely to say yes to being asked to stand for nomination.

[Melinda Phuong]

Yes.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

It is now Ms. Pauzé's turn.

Do you have any questions you'd like to ask?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair.

I believe Ms. deJong was the one who brought the issue up, but the question could be for any of you.

Some countries try to encourage women to enter politics by imposing quotas. What are your thoughts on that approach?

In the workforce, many equal opportunity programs exist. I come from the education sector as well, and I have a labour background. We had an equal opportunity program at the union level, which sought to encourage women to run for president of their union.

Where do you stand on applying that approach to the political arena?

[Victoria deJong]

I'm not going to answer in French, just because I think I'm going to stumble over it.

As regards quotas versus no quotas, I'm personally not in favour of quotas. I think that's getting a little ahead of the problem. I feel that adding quotas would make people resent women more, just because if we went straight from 26% to 50% of the House of Commons being women, a lot of people would perceive that as stealing seats away from other people, even though that's likely not the case as women are very qualified.

It should be on the parties, and on perhaps Elections Canada, to incentivize parties running a gender-equal slate of candidates. I would prefer that, rather than having individual quotas and hoping that society follows. It's more important that we fix the systemic issues that surround women and people's perceptions of women candidates, and as that acceptance grows, let that reflect in the House of Commons—if that makes sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Excellent.

Now to my Liberal colleagues. Do you have a question?

Ms. Nassif.