Status of Women Committee on Oct. 26th, 2017

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

The answer is yes. There's a study out of the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives that quite clearly demonstrates the difference in access to universal child care in Quebec, with its $7-a-day program, versus what happens in the rest of the country, or in Toronto where I am, where it can cost as much as $1,600 a month.

When I lived in Quebec and taught at a CEGEP before that program started, I took home $20 a week after I paid for my two kids to be in child care. It makes a huge difference.

Also, there are studies in Quebec, as I'm sure you're familiar with, that show women's employment increased significantly and poverty levels among women went down with the introduction of the form of universal child care that Quebec has.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Another question would be, among the other provinces and territories in the country, what other factors contribute to the differences in regions when it comes to pay equity or full-time employment?

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

There have been a couple of studies indicating that there is a connection. In Alberta, for instance, there was a survey done that said 46% of the women who worked part-time worked part-time because they didn't have access to affordable child care, just as one example, and that's in a province that is quite wealthy.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I meant, were there other factors? Child care seems to be a factor, but what are other factors that make it different in other regions?

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

What are other factors that make women's employment different in other regions? Well, there are the opportunities for employment, and I think the extent to which we have equity practices. Not all provinces, of course, have proactive pay equity legislation, for example. Not all provinces require the kind of employment equity audits we've seen. Not all provinces have the other kinds of supports that many women need, such as language training, for example—and that includes people who are going to university—or assistance in accreditation into a profession if you're an immigrant, for example.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is going to you, Ms. Howard. You said that 90% of the staff who work in these centres are women. How have you managed to employ 90% women in these centres? Is it because they're just more likely to apply?

[Sonya Howard]

There are a variety of factors, to some of which I can speak and for some of which I would encourage you to visit the local friendship centre in your riding or a neighbouring riding to see them in action. It could be—and I'm not saying these suggestions are the full explanation in each friendship centre—that the nature of the work is, as Ms. Armstrong mentioned, humanities and social sciences. These are very much the caring professions. There may be some natural inclinations that way—not necessarily, but it's one option.

Also, the work can be either full time or part time, sometimes, or it can be very much project-based. That can sometimes appeal to some women, depending on their family situation and depending on access to child care.

Also, it is very family-driven and community-driven. I'll try to give a short example. A woman came in whose child was in the head start program. She volunteered with the head start program in Dauphin, Manitoba. Then they were able to hire her in under the aboriginal head start program, and she was able to get her ECE or early childhood education certification over the course of working there. Those are some examples of how this operates.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Nice.

I was wondering whether you have any programs that are related to education. You mentioned a bunch of other ones, and I know that education is federal when it comes to reserves and to native peoples. I was wondering whether you had any programs to improve education among these children.

[Sonya Howard]

When we say education, we don't mean delivering education. What we mean is more a question of homework clubs and providing educational supports. Some friendship centres in some areas may have alternative high schools, and they may have direct relationships with the provincial government to run them, but I wouldn't say that it's across the board, because friendship centres seize opportunities where they can and when they can.

It's also based on identified community need. Some communities may not identify a need for that type of alternative aboriginal high school.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Emmanuella, you have 30 seconds.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Most of these are in urban centres, you said, not in....

[Sonya Howard]

They're in smaller towns also. Some of our friendship centres make direct connections with first nations as well, because no matter where a first nations person lives, they need services.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excellent.

We're now going to begin our second round, with Martin Shields.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses' being here today and bringing forth the information and mentioning the things they're working with. One thing Sonya mentioned was friendship. I remember being at a meeting a year ago, hosted by a member from the Liberal Party in one of the two major cities in our province, at which we talked about partnerships. There was a lot of discussion about friendship centres and issues in this major city's urban areas. There was a city councillor there who offered a tremendous amount of resources and things the city could do, but there just was not a take-up from the city; they wanted to deal with the feds.

Being a former city councillor, I'm saying those are the guys on the ground. They are the guys who can make decisions and do things quicker. They refer sometimes here to the megalopolis of the federal government, because it's so hard to move things. In partnerships I would argue that the municipalities are much more flexible and willing to do things, so partner with them. I pleaded at that meeting, “Listen to the city councillor here; he's offering you things”, and there wasn't much uptake on it. I would encourage any urban groups to work with the municipalities. They're great partners and have much more flexibility to make decisions.

Could you give me one example from friendship centres—I know you mentioned many different things—of something that's really a success, a winner for you? Could you give me one example of something that has succeeded?

[Sonya Howard]

Do you mean in a particular program area, or just name any?

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You name it. You tell me.

[Sonya Howard]

I'll try to keep it very brief.

Based on the personal experience of seeing the Brandon Friendship Centre in action, not only do they run two aboriginal head start cohort programs on site, but they also manage the satellite site for Portage la Prairie Friendship Centre's aboriginal head start program. They also have one day care that they started on their own that is provincially regulated. They were also invited by the province to open a second day care to pilot a different type of day care layout, structure, and model. I'll try not to go too long into the reason that's so successful, but they incorporate elders through all of their programs.

I was at their day care grad ceremony, and here's the thing: it's the passion, it's the drive, and it's the flexibility as well, because they work very well with their surrounding partners. All friendship centres are doing good work, and those that are able to find unique ways of connecting with municipal partners are able to leverage those dollars as well. While I don't have specifics on Brandon's partnering with the municipality in that case, they certainly have strong relationships there. That impacts their ability to deliver programs and services like this child care, pre-natal-to-kindergarten approach.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Armstrong, I have 20 years as a casual instructor for a university in my background somewhere. As a casual, I stayed out of the politics a lot more than where you work.

One of the things you mention with regard to research is money being directed to specific areas. Do you have a reference for why money has been aimed historically in one particular segment of research versus another? Why has there not been more research money directed to social sciences? Why?

[Dr. Pat Armstrong]

I think one factor is the higher value we place on the so-called hard sciences versus the soft sciences. We attach more value to areas that can be what we think of as objectively measured than to those that can't, areas where we think it costs a lot more money to do the research because you're employing medical doctors, unlike doctors like me. They are more highly valued than people who do social work, for example.

I think there is a host of factors that contribute to this historical valuation, and I think, to go back to what I said earlier about training, we haven't had the same kind of training as those who are doing peer review.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go on to Marc Serré for five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for your excellent presentations.

My first question is to Ms. Howard. In northern Ontario, the friendship centres do a fantastic job, as they do all across the country. I'm really impressed with the level of services for the amount of money that you receive and the challenges you have.

My first question is a bit of a different take from Mr. Shields', a different opinion. I know you work with municipalities, but as a former councillor myself, I know some of the municipalities don't necessarily work with you. Do you have a specific educational program to help municipalities, especially on the racism front? There are a lot of municipalities that still have racist views and some councillors, and I want to know if you have any specific programs to help municipalities and communities with racism.

[Sonya Howard]

Do we have a specific turnkey-ready program that we could hand to friendship centres or municipal councillors? The short answer is that I'm not aware of that. However, what do have, in the case of Quebec, is not one but two city mayor and friendship centre round tables—very successful—to talk about how they can build those relationships and how they can support service delivery for those who need it in the cities and towns there.

Val-d'Or is one of the drivers of that initiative. If we were to prepare a turnkey manual, for lack of a better term, for councillors, I would suggest that it could be modelled after Val-d'Or's. They actually do a whole week to end racism, I believe in March. They have a march to end racism. City councillors are very involved in that one, as far as I'm aware. The mayor takes part in that march. They also have a dinner where they bring together city councillors, the mayor, and local employment partners to foster that relationship and break down those barriers.

People from the Regroupement des centres d'amitié autochtones du Québec, in Val d'Or, also talked about racism at the provincial commission on racism.

There are certainly some good examples there about how to start approaching that.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Excellent. Thank you.

Ms. Armstrong, you indicated that there are three barriers, and you mentioned operating grants. Mr. Fraser talked about Minister Duncan's targeting approach, especially for getting women into either post-doctorates or the administration of universities. I want to get your thoughts on quotas. Targets don't seem to have worked for the past 20 to 30 years. Should we link federal funding for universities to jolt the system? In the last 20 years, universities haven't seemed to have gotten the message. Women still make up just 15% of administration. There's still a low percentage of women in post-doctoral and undergraduate studies.

What are your thoughts on putting in quotas, the way that some European countries have done, to really change the language and see if we could do better for women in universities and across the board?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have a little bit over a minute to answer.