Status of Women Committee on Dec. 12th, 2017

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

One of the things I'm familiar with—and I'm stepping into territory where some people might think it's an invalid analogy—in the Alberta government, when Fort McMurray really expanded, and we had issues around housing, roads, and whatever else, they formed a committee of senior deputies from 16 departments that crossed those silos because it covered so many different aspects. They met on a weekly basis to deal with all the issues surrounding that. That's an example of a cross-silo approach. Senior government officials had to work together on a weekly basis to follow the issues.

[Raji Mangat]

I'm from Grande Prairie so I'm familiar with some of this. Absolutely, I think there are ways to do it. As I said, I think the will is there but sometimes we just have difficulty thinking outside the traditional ways in which we work or the boxes we've put our work into. I think that's a perfect example of how you can have a non-silo approach or have cross-ministerial or cross-departmental individuals involved at a high level who can then go back to their staff or back to their deputies and say this is how this is going to work within this other system. We need to be cognizant of that and not put blinders on and do very narrowly what we think our mandate ought to be.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

That's excellent.

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move on to our final questioner.

We have Eva for five minutes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you both for making your presentation.

My first question is for Ms. Metcalfe.

We all know that the system has many shortcomings, but I would like to know what type of services you think are the most necessary to helping aboriginal women in this process.

What should we implement, strengthen or develop within the justice system to do that?

[Jennifer Metcalfe]

As we both said, the system really is broken. “Creating Choices” was a really good attempt to fix the system, and it didn't happen. We really need to look at self-determination, working with first nation bands, associations, and organizations in urban areas as well, to transfer those services so they're provided by and for indigenous people for there to be the level of trust that's needed among prisoners to look at their lives and to genuinely heal.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

The DisAbled Women's Network of Canada shared some alarming statistics on the impact of traumatic brain injuries suffered by aboriginal women in prison.

Can you establish a correlation between incarceration, mental health issues, addiction, history of traumatic injury and poverty?

[Jennifer Metcalfe]

I think so.

A year ago our organization put out a report on solitary confinement. I think the most striking part of the research that we looked into in producing that report was the levels of trauma are just so high. It's pretty commonly known that the levels of trauma for women, and especially indigenous women, are at the 90% or higher level especially when you consider multi-generational trauma. What struck me in this report is that the levels of trauma are really high for men too. If we want families to be able to heal we need to heal men as well and look at all corrections through a trauma-informed lens.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Is there information on the approximate percentage of aboriginal women offenders in the correctional system who are repeat offenders?

If so, is that percentage higher than it is for other population segments?

Your presentations indicate that it is higher, but can it be compared to the percentage in other demographics?

[Jennifer Metcalfe]

Sorry, I think you're going to have to ask Ivan Zinger that question. He's the one with all the statistics.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Ms. Mangat, can you answer that question?

[Raji Mangat]

I'm not entirely sure about that. During that solitary confinement trial, I was surprised to learn that some of the statistics that corrections are keeping aren't the sorts of things I thought. I thought they would have a sense of the prevalence of mental health issues in people coming in. That's something they've more recently been looking at. They weren't able to provide that type of information for women coming into the prison, at least not at the time of that trial.

I think that's really problematic, because how do we assess whether their interventions are working if we don't have a sense of the experience of people with mental health conditions coming in? How do we tell if they're worsening, getting better, or staying the same if we don't understand and we're not taking a holistic look at the person when they're coming into the prison? Mental health is one area in which I think they haven't been doing such a great job at collecting that data. I may be wrong. That data may be collected now, but it certainly didn't seem to be available at the time of the trial this past summer.

I don't know about the rates of recidivism, and whether they're able to aggregate the data across gender, indigeneity, and mental health. Based on the experience with the trial, I would be surprised if it were coming across in that way. It may be available, but I don't know if they're tracking it like that, to be honest. Ivan Zinger might know.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Following their release, do aboriginal women offenders usually return to reserves or to the general population?

[Raji Mangat]

I'm not sure. I think just as we are all different people with different aspirations and needs, the indigenous members of society who come out of prison are making choices about where they're going to live and where the best supports may be. For some of them, that may be back on a reserve with their community. For others, that may be in a more urban setting. I'm afraid I don't really have the answer in terms of what numbers are going where.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I would really like to thank our panellists for coming today. Jennifer Metcalfe from the West Coast Prison Justice Society and Rajwant Mangat from the West Coast Women's Legal Education and Action Fund, thank you very much for providing us with your testimony today.

We will take a two-minute break so we can change the panel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

If everybody would take their seat, we're going to start in just a few seconds. Right now we are in a bit of a muddle, but we're going to figure it all out. We have Daniel en route looking for people. You never know—he may show up with some of our people.

Right now we have, from the Siksika Nation, by video conference from Calgary, Stephanie Weasel Child, who is the senior manager of claims and research. We will be expecting some others to join us.

Lois Frank has just joined us. She is an instructor of native American studies and criminal justice at the University of Lethbridge.

We are waiting to find the Indigenous Bar Association. Perhaps with the weather and a variety of different things, we have some complications today.

We're going to start off with Stephanie from the Siksika Nation for seven minutes.

[Stephanie Weasel Child, Senior Manager, Claims and Research, Siksika First Nation]

Good morning. Oki.

My name is Stephanie Weasel Child from Siksika Nation. I come to you from Calgary, which is on the traditional Blackfoot territory. It's an honour to be asked to speak before the committee.

I'll give you a bit of background on Siksika Nation. It's the second-largest land-based Indian reservation in Canada. We have a population of just under 8,000; 45% is on reserve and 55% is off. Our fastest growing population is 25 and under.

When I was looking at the topic that was chosen for today, I was thinking of recommendations like having more elders involvement, more female corrections officers, more female first nation judges, access to language and culture, traditional spiritual components within the federal corrections system, for example smudging, learning about your own language and your own culture. But the one thing that kept popping into my head was we should be focusing on ways to keep them out in the first place. When talking to the lawyer in Siksika Nation, she told me that the major cause of having first nations people get in trouble with the law is poverty and addictions. She asks her clients if they would have done this, if they would have committed the crime if they were sober, and nine times out of 10, the answer is no.

Siksika Nation is in a unique position. We have our own courthouse with regularly scheduled criminal and family court. We have our own legal aid office right on reserve. We have a victims' services and a crisis unit. We have probation services. We have two court workers who are Siksika Nation members. One is for criminal and one is for family court. We have a mediation program called Aiskapimohkiiks, which is used mainly for domestic violence and family court. Ninety per cent of the employees with Siksika justice are first nation.

My thinking is we need more programs on reserve to battle the problems of addictions and poverty. Siksika Nation has a Matrix program, which is basically a day treatment program. The limit for that is 20 people per session. I think it's a 12-week program. It's an outpatient treatment program. The only other alternative is to go to a residential treatment program in Calgary or Edmonton, and the wait-list is very long for that.

Another answer would be to look at traditional case management, bringing in elders, following the Aiskapimohkiiks program, which is fully functional in Siksika Nation. It would be bringing in elders, bringing in traditional leaders, traditional knowledge holders, society members, to help with the process with the members who are falling onto the wrong side of the law.

That would be true reconciliation, in my opinion. There is another component where you can educate the guards, the lawyers, the crown prosecutors, the judges, as to why first nations people are where they are. Educate them about the trauma of the residential schools, which caused all the broken families and caused a lot of the problems that first nations are facing today.

We could implement having more first nations judges, female judges. I know of a first nation member who applied. She went through the process and was put on a waiting list, and was told it would be three years before she would hear back for the final decision on whether she would become a judge or not. Three years came and went, so she contacted them again and they told her that the whole process had changed, that she had to go through the application process all over again.

She is a first nations female lawyer who had been working in Siksika Nation for, I would say, about 20 years. She goes out of her way, over and above to help her clients. That's the type of person the provincial government should be looking at to appoint as a judge to work full time in Siksika, because she has made a difference in her work, first as legal aid, as crown prosecutor, as defence, as duty counsel.

There are solutions. Improving their stay while they're in the system is an admirable attempt, but the focus should be on keeping first nations people out in the first place.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

Lois Frank, thank you for joining us. You have seven minutes.

[Lois Frank, Instructor, Native American Studies, Criminal Justice, University of Lethbridge, As an Individual]

Thank you. My name is Lois Frank. I'm from the Blood Tribe, in southern Alberta.

I struggled with this presentation because I was trying to condense everything into seven minutes. That's difficult when you're a lecturer and instructor used to doing four-hour classes. I have a presentation that I've prepared for you, and you'll have copies of it, but I just want to speak from my heart because you've heard a lot of the evidence, the testimony of people who are in the justice system. I just want to share a few things with you.

We have a lot of statistics. We have the data on first nations women in the justice system. We know that women were very influential in traditional societies. We know they had an important role to play. They were the mothers and nurturers. They controlled the economic wealth of first nations sometimes. They had a lot of say in the communities.

I'm here because I teach criminal justice. I teach at the university. I also am involved in Gladue writing. I've been doing that for a number of years for the province. I've come to see the experiences of the people I represent as being very important. I could flood you with statistics and studies and inquiries, but I don't want to do that at this time. As a Gladue writer, under the Supreme Court's dictates, to look at subsection 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code, to look at the circumstances of aboriginal people is really important. Because I live on the Blood reserve, I have grandchildren, and I have students and Gladue clients, I feel as though I'd like to share my personal experiences in the work I do.

I have gained a lot of insight into the lives of aboriginal offenders, including substance abuse, violence, childhood trauma, homelessness, and physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. I have heard many stories and I'm very concerned about the direction we're going in, as far as the criminal justice system is concerned.

As I mentioned, women were very important. They had important roles, but after colonization through the Indian Act, women were non-persons. I think we've been feeling the ripple effects of that. We lived in a spontaneous world, a customary spontaneous world, whereas now it's very cold. We're under the dictates of government, and people who find themselves in the criminal justice system find it to be a very cold, structured world where they don't have much of a say.

A lot of our communities are patriarchal now because of the Indian Act. Women had almost no role and were viewed by the European lens as being inferior, people who were.... We had different roles. We were not dainty European women who were unaccustomed to hard work. Women were very central. They were independent, and they had much power in the community. We see that diminished now. I think that's why we see a lot of the problems with first nations women. They are the pillars. They're the roots of the community. When you take that away, we're seeing the problems, like the murdered and missing indigenous women. We don't need another study, another inquiry. We know there are problems.

I think it's important that we, as people who are attempting to reform some of the systems we have in place, like the courts, police, corrections.... Everyone involved in the criminal justice system, as Stephanie mentioned, needs training, but I think it's more important.... I'm here to speak about the women, the people I represent, the students, the people in the community. I am not here to give you more and more information about rehashing all these studies. I'm here to represent people I come into contact with on a daily basis. I get to hear their stories, and I'm here to advocate for them.

Most importantly, women are the strength, the backbone of the community. That has been totally diminished, but there are a lot of positive things that can happen. The charter protects individuals, protects people. I think the criminal justice system can adapt. We can adapt to the spontaneity of our cultures.

Last, I would just like to say that, as a Gladue writer, I think this is one way we can do something for aboriginal women in the system. We need to afford them the training. We need to use the same criteria we use for judges to look for aboriginal court Gladue writers, because it's very significant to this whole process.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excellent. Thank you so much for your presentations today.

We're now going to start with our first round of questioning, at seven minutes. We're going to start with Pam Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both our witnesses for being here.

Ms. Frank, it's nice to see you again. I sit on the public safety committee. You recently testified there, and you mentioned that, under the Criminal Code, the sentence has to meet the crime, and right now that's not happening. I wonder if you could speak to that a little. You attributed that to plea bargains being made when indigenous offenders are going to trial. I wonder if you could comment on that, as well as the impact that the mandatory minimums have had on the increase in indigenous women in prisons.

[Lois Frank]

I don't think it's specific to aboriginal men or women. That's gender-defined. If we were to look at what is happening to first nations people when they go before the courts, when police charge them, the process that's used.... A lot of times there are no adjudicated facts to base sentencing on. The dictates of the Criminal Code say that it has to match. The gravity has to be the same, and we don't find that with aboriginal offenders. They're just processed, and sometimes they don't know their rights, or they have legal representation and people will plead them out, so they don't really get a chance to tell their stories.

Pre-sentence reports are one thing—they talk about their criminal record and all that—but Gladue reports look at the circumstances, which includes everything from their childhood to their substance abuse problems, things like that. They don't get to speak, and many of them don't want to speak; they just want to get this over with. They're being sentenced to prison more and more, or they're in remand for various reasons. There needs to be more of a structure in place.

I think Gladue writing is really important. I spend a lot of time with these people. I've been called to be before a judge, to speak on behalf of some of the people there. Aboriginal people are.... There's a legal industry where people are not really being represented.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

This question is for both of you.

From 2007 to 2016, over those 10 years, we've seen federal inmate population grow only by 5%, but the indigenous inmate population grow by 39%, and women by 60%. I have a couple of questions related to that. One question I wonder if you could comment on is this: Are we seeing racial profiling of indigenous people, which is leading them to end up in the court system more often? I understand that a report was done here in Ottawa that dealt with racial profiling. Can you comment on whether that's a factor in more people getting sent into the criminal justice system to begin with?

Ms. Weasel Child, do you want to start?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

With racial profiling for first nation people, I think it would occur more in the larger cities like Regina, Winnipeg, and Calgary, to some extent, but on reserve, the police deal only with the Siksika Nation members. With regard to the crime on reserve, it's our own people calling the police, so obviously it's going to be a first nation offender.

With regard to Calgary and the larger cities, I've heard of stories where people have been followed or, when there's a crime, if there's a first nation person present, that person will automatically become the suspect. There are some instances...and a lot of it is geared towards our youth.

That's my answer.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay, thank you.