Status of Women Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you so much.

In addition, you talked about the flexibility—it was mentioned in the recommendations too—the flexibility of parental leave.

In Quebec, if you could just jog my memory, currently what exists? I know there's more time for fathers to access time off as well, and it would be interesting to see if we could expand that to all provinces potentially through our already existing EI system. Could you just explain that briefly and elaborate on that point too?

[Hélène Cornellier]

We obviously have maternity leave. Parental leave can also be shared between mothers and fathers, as is the case at the federal level. We also have maternity leave of three or five weeks, depending on the model selected.

Maternity and paternity leave is better paid. Instead of 55%, parents receive 70% of their salaries, which is already better. Parental leave is paid at 55% of salary because we couldn't do better than that.

So it's important that the employment insurance system provide better-paid leave and that there be no waiting. I'm not absolutely sure of this, and I apologize for it, but I believe there are still waiting periods for federal benefits. That shouldn't be the case because no one is looking for work. Since claimants have just had a baby or are fathers of a new child, the dynamic isn't the same.

The same is true of caregiver and compassionate care benefits. There is a week during which claimants are not paid, whereas this is an essential need. One could make the same criticism of the situation facing those who have just lost their jobs, but I won't go there. It's important that there be no waiting period for this type of benefit, which is granted for essential work that's done for the family, but also for society.

As regards parental leave, it's important that Canadians be entitled to paternity leave. The regime's legislation has just been amended, and the government has agreed that, in single-parent family cases, the mother may take paternity leave or give it to her mother, who would act as the father and take charge of the child, for example.

So there have been improvements for which Quebec groups and the government have worked very hard, where the regime…

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's your time.

We're now going to our second round of questioning for five minutes each, starting with Ms. Sahota.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for appearing today. Thank you for your time and your evidence.

We've heard quite a bit over the last year about how COVID has impacted the mental health of Canadians. My question relates to that unpaid work.

How, if at all, has the COVID pandemic and the associated burden of unpaid work affected women's mental health?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

We don't have a lot of data on that subject. Our organization unfortunately doesn't collect data in that area.

However, as a result of COVID-19 and related health measures, people have far fewer support systems. For example, parents who used to be able to ask grandparents or other members of their circle to babysit children no longer have access to that network or assistance.

In addition, people who telework are constantly at home. They are responsible for their children in a much more constant way and don't really get a break. That definitely has an impact on mental health.

Furthermore, the mental burden is greater as a result of all the measures that have to be taken to limit the risk of contagion, and an effort has to be made to reduce the stress on children in the family. All these factors obviously have an impact on mental health.

My colleagues may have comments to add on that.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

We'll try a different question, then.

What measures do you believe are needed to reduce or eliminate gender inequality related to unpaid work?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

First of all, we have to quantify work done and value it properly. We have to make people aware of and recognize the essential nature of that work. We think that will permit a better sharing of tasks within the family. All too often, that's still taken for granted. People don't realize it. It's as though they believe the refrigerator magically fills up on its own and that the laundry does itself. Measures must be introduced to recognize this invisible work, without which the economy and society as a whole cannot function.

I think people must be made aware of this, in particular by establishing a national invisible work day, which should ultimately be recognized internationally. By quantifying and recognizing the value of this essential work, we can better distribute invisible work within households and in society.

[Hélène Cornellier]

If I still have a little time, I would add that unpaid work within the family is not recognized. All the jobs that follow from this, whether you're talking about childcare workers or patient care attendants, who were discussed at length at the start of the pandemic—they were called "arms," which I consider somewhat insulting because they're people who have more than arms—are underpaid because they're associated with work that women do.

Here in Quebec, Mr. Legault had people trained and gave them a more appropriate salary for one year. As far as I know, it will revert to the pay level that's offered within the network after the year has elapsed. If that's the case, it will have been fine for getting them through the pandemic, but then those persons, who are mainly women, many of whom are immigrants from various cultural backgrounds, will wind up with low salaries and unable to support their families.

The time when a woman's salary was a second wage, pin money to pay for who knows what, is over. It's not being used to pay for lipstick; it's used to pay for childcare, groceries, the house and so on. That's today's reality.

It's 2021, it seems to me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That's very good.

Now we'll go to Ms. Dhillon for five minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Good afternoon to all the witnesses, and welcome to our committee.

I'm going to start by asking an open question. As you know, our government has established shared parental benefits.

Can you tell us a little about the positive effect that has had on work shared between men and women?

[Hélène Cornellier]

The parental benefit dates back to 2004, if memory serves me. That was a much appreciated addition to the Canadian employment insurance plan, and we copied that part in the Quebec system.

Of course, a mother who has just had her first child will, in many instances, use all the parental leave so she can stay with the baby as long as possible. I think we still see the same trend today, although I've seen many different cases.

When one of my nephews had his first baby, for example, the mother took maternity leave in Quebec and he took paternity leave. When they had twins the second time, she took maternity leave, and he took his paternity leave and six months' parental leave. So she was able to go back to her job and studies, which she wanted to do, and handed off to my nephew, who took charge of the household and children.

That was a great help to the entire family. He understood, for example, what goes on in the household when you're there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They also suddenly found themselves with three children.

I've seen many fathers in similar cases. My niece did the same thing. She and her spouse still share parental leave. That gives the men an understanding, even if it's only partial, of the everyday life and mental burden that women bear, which advances the idea of this family model when they discuss it with their friends and neighbours.

So that has a beneficial effect, a very significant one.

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

I would add that the mother often plays the main role. The father frequently asks her questions such as where the baby's milk is, for example. He often turns to the mother.

However, when the father takes a significant amount of parental leave and truly takes on his responsibilities toward his children, that helps balance the parents' relationship more fully in other areas. Sharing parental leave helps the father take on more responsibility than when that leave is used mainly by the mother.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

As you know, our government has also introduced an additional five to eight weeks of parental benefits. Do you think that has helped families and young families even more?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

I imagine so, but I'm not really aware of it.

Would you like to answer that question, Mrs. Cornellier?

[Hélène Cornellier]

I don't remember when that was done. We don't have any data on how those benefits are being used. I haven't done that research.

However, it definitely can't hurt. On the contrary, it gives parents a little more time that they can share, a replacement income when babies and young children are at home.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

I see.

Do you have any ideas or recommendations for our government regarding the introduction of a national childcare system?

Ms. Pertuiset-Ferland had many. We would be grateful if other witnesses wanted to add to them.

[Hélène Cornellier]

The Canadian system that will ultimately have to be introduced—that's our view—and should be based on the Quebec system. Without turning this into a partisan or parochial issue, the system in place in Quebec works well and is satisfactory. However, it could be improved because there aren't enough daycare spaces.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Your speaking time is up.

Ms. Larouche, you have two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much for being here today, Mrs. Cornellier, Ms. Courteau and Ms. Pertuiset-Ferland.

You've cited Quebec's unique approach to recognizing invisible work. We can see that unique approach in the daycare centres issue and in the establishment of the inter-organizational committee funded by Quebec's Secrétariat à la Condition féminine. These are good initiatives.

I'd like to take another look at what the federal government can do on the invisible work issue.

You've discussed the importance of introducing gender-based analysis, GBA+. We have federal legislation on the subject, but it isn't adequately enforced. There's even talk of employment insurance reform because the present system has too many disadvantages for women. You also mentioned women caregivers who are 65 years old or more. Purchasing power and old age security have to be increased.

How could those three government measures actually assist in recognizing the invisible work done by mothers and caregivers?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

It's definitely essential that we get gender-based data that can help us understand the situation more clearly and address the inequalities that are still very much present in the way invisible work is shared.

There has to be greater recognition, respect and support for the people who do invisible work, particularly the elderly and older women, who are already at greater risk of falling into difficult financial circumstances. So these measures are definitely essential in supporting these people, who perform extremely important work for society as a whole.

Would you like to add to that, Mrs. Cornellier or Ms. Courteau?

[Hélène Cornellier]

I would add pay equity to the three important measures that Ms. Larouche mentioned.

Once again, I'm going back to the example of Quebec, because it has made progress in this area. Unfortunately, at the federal level, the Pay Equity Act isn't entirely or adequately enforced, as far as I know, and doesn't look as though it will be. So that's significant.

I would also add gendered budgets. Every policy that's introduced, whether to make changes to employment insurance, old age security or the guaranteed income supplement, must be analyzed to determine whom it affects and how so it can be adapted to women.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

The Standing Committee on the Status of Women has already examined that issue, by the way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We have Lindsay Mathyssen, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I really appreciated what you were saying about pay equity. It's an additional study that we are trying to move forward in this committee as well. Hopefully, we'll get some really good answers on that out of the minister next week.

There were discussions about the UN and things brought forward to the status of women commission on the recognition of unpaid work. The International Labour Organization also brought forward a convention on domestic work, on the recognition of unpaid work. Convention 189, which has not been adopted by Canada, specifically addresses that.

Do you think that would help in addition to all the other things we've been talking about today, with a day and that recognition and that advocacy? Would that help?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

I'm not familiar with that convention, but it would definitely be very helpful if we could pool the resources of several countries to address the issue on an international scale.