Status of Women Committee on Feb. 18th, 2021

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

Many people have been teleworking since the pandemic began, and children have to do their schoolwork at home. That's definitely had an impact on the distribution of invisible work. The family situation isn't the same for everyone, but it's generally up to mothers to do the invisible work. Mothers provide much more support to children doing their schoolwork at home even when both parents are teleworking. If the children have problems during the day, the mother's work is interrupted far more often than the father's. That's obviously not always the case; it's a generalization

I nevertheless think that the pandemic and telework have increased responsibilities for mothers in many families.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you.

My next question will be about access to information. A couple of our panellists mentioned the fact that for unpaid family caregivers, they wanted a lot of information. For example, benefits and supports differ from province to province. There are supports in Quebec that may not be present in my province of British Columbia. If I have a parent who's moved to Quebec, I would love to know what kind of support there will be there.

I understand that there is a need for access to information so that people know, from province to province and territory, where to go, especially in these days when everybody is trained or self-trained to use the Internet. Can either of you shed light on this, please?

[Hélène Cornellier]

I'll answer that question, Madam Chair.

Quebec doesn't provide caregiver benefits like those available under Canada's employment insurance plan. We at Afeas are working so that, within a few years, our parental insurance plan will include caregiver benefits like those currently paid to Quebec parents.

A caregiver who needs compassionate care, adult caregiver or child caregiver benefits applies to the Canadian employment insurance plan, but she obviously has to be eligible for it.

Federal and provincial tax credits, which are different, are available for other persons. I won't go into all the details. Some measures provide for the reimbursement of expenses, but that's quite complex. I myself find it hard to understand it all.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond Centre, BC]

In other words, would a helpline really be able to help? I mean a helpline across the nation. All you need to do is dial a number, 211, for example, and then you'd get the information in French and English and in different languages or dialects as well. Do you think that would be of use to all the provinces and territories?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

Yes, that would help. In many instances, the measures already in place that should be enhanced don't benefit the people who need them because those individuals either have trouble accessing them or don't have enough information.

But, yes, a helpline would be very good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Mr. Serré, you have six minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks very much to our witnesses.

Witnesses usually come and tell us about problems, but you've spent a lot of time outlining solutions. Thank you very much for your recommendations, which will help us prepare a national report so that we can support the provinces on this issue.

My first question is for Ms. Pertuiset-Ferland.

Have you conducted any studies or collected data on the rural situation? Do you have any specific recommendations on ways to address the problems experienced in the rural areas of Quebec, Ontario and Canada as a whole?

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

We unfortunately don't have a lot of data on that subject.

And one of the problems we really want to emphasize is the lack of information. That's why we truly want measures put in place that will quantify the work done in the various regions, distinguish between the sexes and take into account intersectionality.

One of the member associations of our inter-organizational committee is Agricultrices du Québec. Some of our demands are based on their problems.

In particular, much of the work that women farmers do is neither recognized nor paid. Much of the work done within family businesses is unpaid, and this non-recognition can penalize them. In the event of a separation or death of a spouse, their contribution to the family business is not recognized.

That's the only piece of information I can give you on that subject.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Cornellier and Ms. Courteau, have you conducted any studies from which you could make special recommendations to the federal government to include men and boys in the conversation on invisible work and caregivers?

[Lise Courteau]

I'll let you answer that, Ms. Cornellier.

[Hélène Cornellier]

It's somewhat difficult to propose specific solutions to the federal government because, unlike the provincial government, it doesn't deal with education. A lot of information is transmitted through childcare centres, elementary schools and families, of course.

At the federal level, national campaigns should be organized that are tailored to the populations of the provinces and reflect their cultural diversity. You can't address a newcomer from North Africa or Asia in the same way you do a family that has been living here for three or four generations.

As far as possible, you have to deal with people in their language and use images that are appropriate to their culture. Otherwise they're feeling indifferent because they don't understand what they're hearing or think it doesn't concern them. The same is true of indigenous families, for example.

So you have to work with the communities to ensure you convey messages that are appropriate to them. For example, newcomers, and even indigenous persons, have to be told what better task-sharing and family balance are.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Courteau and Ms. Pertuiset-Ferland, our federal committee is examining recommendations and national standards for supporting the provinces.

Do you have any other specific recommendations to offer the committee on invisible work and the work done by caregivers so that we can provide better support to the provinces?

[Lise Courteau]

First of all, establishing an invisible work awareness day would definitely help put the issue in the public arena. Then it would be easier for us and others to include it in our discourse. Invisible work is so invisible for some people that they don't know it exists. And yet it does exist.

So dedicating a day to the cause would definitely be a step in the right direction.

[Marianne Pertuiset-Ferland]

I'd like to add that including a question on the subject in the census questionnaire and adding the value of invisible work in calculating GDP would help distinguish the various situations of all the regions, which would help the provinces.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Do you have anything to add, Ms. Cornellier?

[Hélène Cornellier]

I second what my two colleagues just said.

As regards other, more financial measures, we discussed the tax credits that should be changed. That's a demand that our members have been making for years now. Many of them are caregivers and are unable to claim tax credits because they don't earn enough income now that they're retired. You have to understand that many caregivers are between 45 and 65 years of age. Many of them are 65 or older. I saw my mother help one of my aunts when she was 80 years old and my aunt 86. So you have to take that into account. It's an important fact.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Larouche, go ahead for six minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thanks to our witnesses.

It was very interesting to hear what you had to say, Mrs. Cornellier, Ms. Courteau and Ms. Pertuiset-Ferland. It's a pleasure to have you here today before the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

I'd like to continue along the lines of what my colleague was saying. You mentioned national invisible work awareness day, which would be on the first Tuesday in April. That was also the purpose of the bill that former Bloc member Nicole Demers introduced in 2010. This is 2021.

Ten years later, can you tell us how important it is to have an awareness day that would be the first step in establishing greater recognition for the invisible work of caregivers in particular?

[Lise Courteau]

Mrs. Cornellier, would you answer the question, please?

[Hélène Cornellier]

Afeas introduced invisible work day to the public in 2001, 20 years ago. Our aim was really to increase awareness among citizens and decision-makers. It was in the wake of that move that Ms. Demers introduced a motion in the House of Commons in 2010 requesting that the day be created. A Conservative government was in power at the time, and no action was taken on the motion. That's often the case with motions.

That's why we aren't requesting a motion, but rather a bill or an order. Our purpose is really to establish this day. This is consistent with the international commitments Canada has made to recognize this kind of work since 1975. Canada has made a commitment to it. So the idea is to take one more step toward making this work visible by establishing a national day, across Canada, as has been done, for example, with the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence against Women, which was established following the Polytechnique tragedy and which occurs on December 6. Other days have been created as well.

I saw that, in one of your reports, your committee called for a day against human trafficking to be created, on February 22, I think. I saw that a few days ago. One could say that these are critically important days. They help fix in people's minds that these issues are important. This compels the government in power, whatever it may be, to highlight those days and to do so every year. As a consequence of this, Statistics Canada should provide us, generally every five years, and during the five years between censuses, with data on unpaid work via the General Social Survey, particularly under the heading of time use.

The data should also indicate the number of hours worked by a given number of individuals in a given age group in Quebec, British Columbia or elsewhere in the country. It should also indicate the monetary value of that work. In addition to hours worked, it should also show direct and indirect costs. As noted in our brief, it should also indicate income that caregivers have foregone. One of the witnesses—I believe it was Ms. Coupal—also discussed direct costs, such as where the caregiver is required to pay rent for the person cared for, as well as the costs associated with that person's transportation, activities, diapers or, if that person is bedridden, support pillows and so on. All that involves costs, and many caregivers face costs of up to $6,000 per year in performing this work. Some pay more.

This is important. I would say it creates an additional moral obligation for government to gather and report this information. Groups such as ours, which are engaged in an effort to have this necessity recognized, rely on the data that Statistics Canada provides. We can't do that work because it's too costly. We can't commission Statistics Canada to do it because we would have to pay for it. It's truly up to the government to shed light on the situation rather than allow unpaid work to remain invisible, as it still is.

It is time to include it in GDP, as is everywhere the case of business, commerce and institutions. It has to be important and recognized. The pandemic and all it has brought in its wake prove that it is time to take action and promptly address this question.

The study you are conducting today is proof of that.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Absolutely. Thank you for recalling the work that Afeas has done. It's much more than what was contained in the motion that Ms. Demers introduced in 2010. This will make you reflect on the bill, as we did in committee last week in connection with the motion on National Human Trafficking Awareness Day, which falls on February 22.

In short, you feel that more figures should be provided, that the matter should be reflected in the long-form census questionnaire and that it is essential so that social measures can be introduced to provide greater support for caregivers, whose work is invisible. There really is a direct connection between the data and what we can implement.

[Hélène Cornellier]

Yes, because, without data, we can't prove this approach is valid.

I discussed the Canada recovery caregiving benefit in the brief. According to the data we were able to obtain—I think it was on February 7—327,000 persons have applied for it. More of them were probably women.

In 2012, 8.1 million persons were caregivers. I don't have the exact figure for 2021. Whatever the case may be, it's a really small number…

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

You're out of time on that one.

Now we're going to Ms. Mathyssen for six minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you so much.

I appreciate the witnesses and what they've brought to us today. I am appreciative of all those suggestions. As Mr. Serré mentioned, those recommendations that you brought forward are extremely helpful. I absolutely agree that there needs to be far more recognition on this. The refundable tax credit is key in terms of equalizing the ability of people to access it.

One thing that we heard in a previous report, too, was that ease of accessibility and the need for a simplified process for access to supports and all the benefits through CRA and so on. Hearing that again is really key, and I'd like to make sure that it's in the report that we put forward for this study.

You mentioned affordable child care, which I'm a huge advocate for, the availability of a universal affordable child care program—of course with the recognition that Quebec already has much of that in place with respect to the province of Quebec—and ensuring that it is provided nationwide. What we've put forward is the idea that there needs to be a legislated act, similar to the Canada Health Act, so that the availability of universal affordable child care is put forward.

With respect to Quebec, and obviously ensuring that it receives funding and so on separately, would you support that legislated act?

[Hélène Cornellier]

Yes, we will definitely have to analyze it once it's introduced. The present government has already discussed it. It's an essential need for Canadian women. When we do business with national groups, as we do from time to time, it's one of the things we hear. As a result of the pandemic, among other things, women, in many cases, have been unable to go back to work if they don't have access to adequate childcare services.

Even at home in Quebec, where childcare services are quite good, they weren't available for a period of time or else were offered only to certain workers. So that was a very difficult situation and people—generally mothers, but fathers as well—had to stay at home and not go back to work. And this is still happening, when school is closed or the childcare service is unable to take in children as a result of a new epidemic.

That shows you how important childcare services are because they are directly related to women's ability to enter the labour market and thus to become financially self-sufficient. Everything is related to that. It's an essential starting point.